Federally Mandated Vaccination

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Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby RainyDays » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:30 pm

Here's a topic that came to mind as I was reading the measles thread, and I thought I'd bring it up here so the good (and not-so-good, you know who you are) people of TCS can do some of my internal debating for me, with far more eloquence and better research.

Many vaccinations are already mandated as prerequisites for entry into schools and certain work forces, but I'd like to see what members of this community have to say about federal regulation requiring vaccination to maintain herd immunity. I myself am a firm supporter of vaccines, but on the other hand I'm not very comfortable with medical decisions falling under the purview of the federal government. I can easily see how it would get complicated, unwieldy, and messy, and there's always the hope that education and the wake-up call that is the reemergence of previously eradicated diseases will make legislation unnecessary. Thoughts? Opinions? Unrelated witticisms?
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby NathanLoiselle » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:58 pm

Unfortunately where I'm from it's the local health unit that determines decisions regarding things like group health. I.E. herd immunity. If one was to ask me, and they did!, who I'd prefer making decisions it'd be the federal government. This is because the local health unit goes overboard.

They banned smoking from patios designed specifically for smoking. They banned them from private clubs which are not considered public spaces. And now they're working at banning smoking inside cars. Sure I understand public places but in cars? That's my space thank you very much.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby cmsellers » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:14 pm

I have no problem mandating well-established vaccines, such as the MMR and tetanus vaccines. I'd be more cautious about mandating vaccines less than a decade old, because if we ever have an issue similar to the one with mercury (which didn't cause autism but did cause other issues) it would lead to all kinds of fallout.

On the other hand, the people who don't vaccinate their children are usually the crunchy granola types, yet the politicians who speak out in favor of parental choice on the matter are usually Republicans. This to me seems to indicate that you have the recipe for widespread public resentment.

I've noticed that a lot of people are far touchier about being told what they can do with their children than they can do with themselves. Even when what they're doing is harmful (spanking, not vaccinating, teaching creationism), the parents in question genuinely believe that the alternative is harmful (they'd spoil their children, give them autism, or imperil their immortal souls), and thus the parental protective instinct kicks in.

though I think that in the US you'd have to include a religious exemption (for both political and constitutional reasons), and when you do that you leave a loophole large enough to drive a truck through.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:56 pm

If exceptions are going to be made for people who claim "God doesn't like that," then those same exceptions should apply to those who think there may be mind-control nanobots in all the syringes. People who refuse medical interventions for their children on the grounds of "it's not natural and the Lord will provide" have no business driving cars, chilling out in air conditioned buildings, using the internet, or any of the thousands of other petty comforts and conveniences not specifically condoned in the Bible.

My daughter Sonja is autistic and even if I believed her condition was the direct result of being vaccinated, I still wouldn't take a chance on letting her catch something that could disfigure and/or kill her. There are worse things in this world than autism.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby JamishT » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:29 pm

On the face of it, it seems logical to mandate the protection of your children...but I like freedom and stuff. I am completely fine with schools requiring immunizations for prospective students, shoot, I'd be more okay with individual states mandating vaccinations than it be enacted on a federal level. That has more to do with my political stance than my vaccine stance.
I think those who believe lies about vaccines will not be convinced otherwise by being mandated to vaccinate. A (truthful) propaganda campaign would be far more effective.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby Tesseracts » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:43 pm

JamishT wrote:I think those who believe lies about vaccines will not be convinced otherwise by being mandated to vaccinate. A (truthful) propaganda campaign would be far more effective.

This is my biggest fear: people who don't vaccinate will continue not to vaccinate regardless of the law. These children will be driven even further from medicine and society if vaccination becomes mandatory.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby sunglasses » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:55 pm

Tesseracts wrote:
JamishT wrote:I think those who believe lies about vaccines will not be convinced otherwise by being mandated to vaccinate. A (truthful) propaganda campaign would be far more effective.

This is my biggest fear: people who don't vaccinate will continue not to vaccinate regardless of the law. These children will be driven even further from medicine and society if vaccination becomes mandatory.


It's a good fear. but there is a precident. The small pox vaccine was mandatory.

Here's some links with history and shit.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby NathanLoiselle » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:58 pm

cmsellers wrote:I have no problem mandating well-established vaccines, such as the MMR and tetanus vaccines. I'd be more cautious about mandating vaccines less than a decade old, because if we ever have an issue similar to the one with mercury (which didn't cause autism but did cause other issues) it would lead to all kinds of fallout.


Actually the mercury was in the MMR vaccine. The problem wasn't the vaccine at all. It was the preservative used to ensure that the vaccine was effective and viable.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby Ericthebearjew » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:01 pm

DamianaRaven wrote:
My daughter Sonja is autistic and even if I believed her condition was the direct result of being vaccinated, I still wouldn't take a chance on letting her catch something that could disfigure and/or kill her. There are worse things in this world than autism.

You're just saying that because you're part of the Lizard Nazi Illuminati Cabal evilly conspiring to propagandize that maybe people shouldn't be ergophobic nutcases when it comes to parenting and people with ASDs are human when they're obviously from Kepler-444c!
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby sunglasses » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:13 pm

NathanLoiselle wrote:
cmsellers wrote:I have no problem mandating well-established vaccines, such as the MMR and tetanus vaccines. I'd be more cautious about mandating vaccines less than a decade old, because if we ever have an issue similar to the one with mercury (which didn't cause autism but did cause other issues) it would lead to all kinds of fallout.


Actually the mercury was in the MMR vaccine. The problem wasn't the vaccine at all. It was the preservative used to ensure that the vaccine was effective and viable.


Except a meta-study indicated that there absolutely was no connection.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby Edgar Cabrera » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:15 pm

sunglasses wrote:Here's some links with history and shit.

Image
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby RainyDays » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:27 pm

Stellar sources, sunglasses. The last one in particular was quite illustrative.

As to mercury: the preservative in question is often thimersol, and it is still used in some vaccines. There's an article here (quite long, but a nice source, and there's a paragraph that directly addresses the accusations leveled against the MMR vaccine and says that there was no causal link found):

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

The fact is, many foods -- fish, rice, even corn syrup -- expose someone to more mercury than a single vaccine does. Not to say there haven't been (and couldn't be in the future!) problems caused by the contents of vaccines, but for the most part mercury is not something I'd be concerned over unless there were unusually high levels in question.

Edit: Basically, what sunglasses said, just with more words.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Tesseracts wrote:This is my biggest fear: people who don't vaccinate will continue not to vaccinate regardless of the law. These children will be driven even further from medicine and society if vaccination becomes mandatory.


I guess the good news, if you could call it that, is that most of the people who refuse to vaccinate their children don't have the kind of courage and fortitude you're talking about. There will still be a small minority of extremists who would rather live off the grid than listen to reason, but I think that most opponents of vaccination would cave at the prospect of actual consequences for their decisions.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby NathanLoiselle » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:56 pm

There is a concern (and by concern I mean me) that because there's less volume in a child's brain that even smaller amounts of mercury will have a larger effect than with an adult. I mean we can't eliminate how much heavy metals we ingest but I'd like to see a reduction where possible so that we can go that much longer without reaching poisonous levels.
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Re: Federally Mandated Vaccination

Postby Sheogorath » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:59 pm

hey look nobody has noticed that the entire act of forcing people to take a particular act is Draconian

and nobody cares
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Last edited by Sheogorath on Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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