Stanford Rape Case

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Stanford Rape Case

Postby Andropov4 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:42 pm

I saw this on Facebook and decided to post what I said there here.

Hell. Yes. Because, again, that’s what you do to rapists — you take the privileges they have in their life (i.e. attending Stanford, being a competitive swimmer) away from them. Thank-you Stanford and the young men who saved this woman for showing the world what it looks like when you do the right thing.


I realize this might be controversial, but is that the right thing to do? Do we really need to punish every person accused of rape (I know this case seems pretty clear, so I'm speaking in a more abstract sense here) by kicking them out of everything and doing our best to ruin every aspect of their lives? I find the lauding of extra-legal punishment unsettling. By all means, suspend the accused, but to always presume guilt and then behave as though it's your job to make sure no rapist ever has any hope of re-integrating into society seems extreme. Let the legal process take its course, and afterwards, evaluate him as a person instead of merely saying "He's a rapist? Well, I think he should not be allowed to work anywhere, get an education, or participate in any form of leisure activity or entertainment with other human beings".
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby Jack Road » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 pm

I think doing that just increases the chances of him turning to even worse crimes. I'm not a fan of "punishing" anyways. It doesn't work. Being afraid of being punished stops people from doing things only until they can rationalize that they won't get caught the next time. Better to work towards changing his behavior, which kicking him out of school and banning him from work has not at all accomplished.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:43 pm

For the same reasons, I think sex offender registries should be abolished forthwith. I find them to be nothing more than a means of persecution - not a single study has proven that "Megan's Law" does diddly shit about the rate of child molestation and/or other kinds of sex* crimes.



*Sex needn't even be a factor to get on the registry. Many people have become registered sex offenders for the crime of being naked in the wrong place. They've also proven perfectly willing to put minors on The List, some as young as eleven
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby Ericthebearjew » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:46 pm

Aren't they on that list for a reason?
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby Andropov4 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:01 am

They are. But the problem is that being on that list basically censures you for life. Your sentence, if you get put on the sex offender registry, effectively never ends. That's not how a justice system is supposed to work.
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Last edited by Andropov4 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby NotCIAAgent » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:16 am

I am against any punishment taken before the jury, and any sentence that rules out any possibility of rehabilitation, or, if not, brings severe consequences even after the regeneration. That's all.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby aviel » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:47 am

Andro, I'm not sure I understand how your objections relate to this case.

Regardless, these kinds of things should be dealt with by the police, not internal college investigations. However, if the college is handling them, then people who have committed rape on campus should be barred from the campus. I don't see an issue with that. There's no presumption of guilt here; there's actual conclusive evidence of guilt.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:28 am

Pov wasn't saying that convicted rapists should be allowed to roam around college campuses with impunity from the administration. I think he was saying that college campuses shouldn't operate on their own little "rape handling system" independently of the police and criminal courts. People should NOT be penalized for mere accusations of rape. Whilst suspending someone for the duration of an investigation and/or trial can be considered a reasonable safety measure, that person should have their academic record cleared if their criminal record remains likewise unblemished.

However, expelling a student because another student is making a fuss to the tune of "he raped me and the cops won't do anything about it," is just wrong. I'm no longer speaking for Pov at this point, but I can probably change his mind if he doesn't already agree.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby aviel » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:33 am

Yes, colleges should not handle rape investigations internally, but given that they do, then expelling a person from campus who actually did rape somebody seems reasonable. Andro's objections don't seem relevant specifically to this case.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby Andropov4 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:36 am

I wasn't really talking specifically about this case. That quote from the article I pulled out just served to illustrate an attitude I proceeded to argue against. In this exact case, I can find little to argue with. But I think the author of the article makes it rather clear that they would wish this sort of thing to be standard procedure in all cases of rape accusations.

DamianaRaven wrote:I can probably change his mind if he doesn't already agree.


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!!!

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:38 am

*leans toward Avi with a stage whisper*

L'il Bird, Pov and I just started a drinking contest. We're probably better off resuming this discussion on the bright, sober morrow.

Spoiler: show
[/YouTube]
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Re: !!!

Postby aviel » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:36 am

DamianaRaven wrote:L'il Bird, Pov and I just started a drinking contest. We're probably better off resuming this discussion on the bright, sober morrow.

If you drink little enough to survive until then.
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby Andropov4 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:55 am

Don't worry, dude, we've got practice at this drinking thing.
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Re: !!!

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:59 am

aviel wrote:If you drink little enough to survive until then.


I have children your age, Lovely Bird, one of whom owes her existence entirely to my drunken shenanigans. What do you think is going to happen?
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Re: Stanford Rape Case

Postby JamishT » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:48 am

Punishment for just being accused of rape is unhelpful at the least. I can understand separating the accuser and the accused, but kicking the accused out of school or suspending them from their sports team? Over something they might not have done? No. That's unfair. No matter how quiet you try to keep it, the reason for the suspension or whatever will come out, and that person's social and possibly professional life is over. Their friends who believe the worst will cut them off completely, and even most of those who believe the person is innocent will act differently around them. It's not right, but it happens.
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