Our 51st state(?)

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Our 51st state(?)

Postby Cobra-D » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:42 am

Today Puerto Rico voted today on a referendum for statehood. Course there's a controversy of if that's really want the people of PR. Want seeing how only 20 percent of the polulantion showed up to vote(which if anything proves they're true Americans). There's speculation that the reason it was so low is because of two major political parties boycotting the vote, which really seems stupid to me.

"Hey they're voting to make PR. A state."

"What?! I don't want to be a state!"

"Yeah this is bs, I say we boycott by not voting!"

"Yeah that'll show them how we feel!"

....man they truly are americas.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby SandTea » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:09 am

You feeling ok, buddy?

Besides that, I like the idea of statehood for our buddies if they want it. Gotta say though, bad fucking timing guys. I mean, they do know... sigh, we elected Don T. right? Well, at least I've got my party theme on lock if the trend continues. "Lets party like its nineteen ninety Guam"
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby Bromo » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:55 am

But why though? Our leader is a dumbass. They should feel lucky.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby cmsellers » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:16 am

So a little background:

Puerto Rico has held several referendums on becoming a state. The percent voting for continuing the status quo has always exceeded the percent voting for statehood, but the margin has been narrower each time. There's a small, fairly consistent minority that wants either independence or a Compact of Free Association, which is basically independence with benefits.

The last time they voted, in 2012, the pro-statehood governor came up with a little trick. There would be a two-part option. First question would be: do you want to continue the status quo? Pro-statehood and pro-independence voters would together win on that question. Second question would be: do you want to be a state, have a CFA, or be fully independent. Since pro-statehood voters easily outnumber supporters of both options, statehood would win even if the pro-commonwealth faction cast blank ballots, which is exactly what happened. In fact, votes for statehood on the second round were outnumbers by votes for the SQ on the first. But politicians in the mainland took one look at the chicanery involved and said "come back when a clear and convincing majority favors statehood."

The pro-statehood governor was ousted as a result of that gambit, but a new pro-statehood governor came to power in 2016 and said "fuck it, I'm holding an election with only statehood and independence as options." Surprisingly, the Trump administration showed some sense, and made the government of Puerto Rico insert an option for the SQ as well. However the ballot questions was worded in such a way that every party opposed to statehood still called for a boycott.

Now, Puerto Rico would very clearly be better off under statehood. Traditionally, the federal government gave all kinds of tax breaks to encourage businesses to invest in Puerto Rico, but W. dismantled them. The income tax exemption remains, but most Puerto Ricans would not pay much if any income tax anyways, and by not being eligible to file returns, a whole lot of them miss out on the Earned Income Tax Credit. Because of territorial status, they also get a ton less funding for Medicare and Medicaid, and do not have the same options when it comes to their debt that states do. And, of course, they're passing up two senators and three representatives who would give them a voice in Washington. But young Puerto Ricans have a tendency to leave the island, meaning that it's increasingly full of cranky old people who bitterly oppose statehood because they've always done so, and hey, maybe the sweet deal they used to have will return.

It will be interesting to see what happens here. Congress ignored the last referendum for being undemocratic, but this one was a straight-up, three-way race. Personally I think that the governor should have used more neutral wording, but also that the opposition should have sucked it up and voted. If I were a Congressperson, I would push for Puerto Rico to be admitted, but it's a rather tough choice.

And remember, Republicans still control Congress. Statehood means adding five House seats and two Senate Seats which are fairly reliably Democratic, admitting a state where most people don't speak English well (it's mandatory in schools, but then so is Irish in Ireland; ask Logan how that's working out), and most worryingly: giving lots more money to poor people. If Trump weren't president I'd say there's no chance of it being admitted this go-round, but after Trump I suppose anything is possible.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby Absentia » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:19 am

Statehood won with a frankly suspicious 97% of the vote. The governor is declaring victory and plans to move ahead with the process, while the opposition is pointing to low turnout as evidence of the "success" of their boycott. (Boycotting an election doesn't seem to me like the best way to get your voice heard. You don't get to just take your ball and go home if you don't like what's being voted on.)

At any rate, most observers believe that statehood won't happen while Republicans control Congress, because who cares about the economic strife of brown people when a couple of extra Senate seats are on the line.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby cmsellers » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:37 am

Absentia wrote:Statehood won with a frankly suspicious 97% of the vote.

Sometimes, even margins that lopsided can be legit. I don't think anyone is claiming the election is fraudulent, and this referendum wasn't a trick referendum like the last one (though the governor had wanted it to be).

I believe that boycotting it was childish and stupid. Boycotting elections should be a last resort, for when you know the opposition is going to play really unfair, not just because the wording of the question makes some presuppositions you don't like. I would support admission precisely to show that this is what happens if you don't vote in free and fair elections held by the legitimately constituted authority. However I don't think that will happen, and you can argue about whether such a big change as statehood is a good time to make such a point.

That said, almost 28% of eligible voters voted for the current president, while just over 22% of eligible voters voted for this. I would admit Puerto Rico, but it doesn't really look to me like statehood has a clear mandate.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby CarrieVS » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:44 am

cmsellers wrote:Compact of Free Association, which is basically independence with benefits.


Nobody tell the SNP about this, k?
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby tinyrick » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:20 am

Doesn't statehood have to be granted by Congress? I doubt Puerto Rico will be allowed in under a Republican Congress. It would mean giving up seats to the Democrats. Same reason Washington D.C. isn't a state yet.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:41 pm

tinyrick wrote:Doesn't statehood have to be granted by Congress? I doubt Puerto Rico will be allowed in under a Republican Congress. It would mean giving up seats to the Democrats. Same reason Washington D.C. isn't a state yet.


Well, that and it would cost a shit ton, considering how much debt PR is in.

But I'm with Sellers. This is like when people were wanting a second Brexit vote because they didn't actually think it would happen or mean their vote. I was like "Nope. You need a hard lesson about the voting process. No take-backsies."
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby cmsellers » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:28 pm

tinyrick wrote:Doesn't statehood have to be granted by Congress? ... Same reason Washington D.C. isn't a state yet.

Puerto Rico can be admitted by a simple majority of Congress. To make DC a state it would take a Constitutional amendment, which is a wee bit harder than admitting a state. And since DC is tiny in area, most Republicans suggest retroceding it to Maryland instead. Never mind that we have two Dakotas entirely because Republicans controlled Congress at the time and wanted an extra two Senate seats, Republicans like George Will believe that that DC statehood is nothing more than a plot to unfairly add two Democratic Senators.

Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:This is like when people were wanting a second Brexit vote because they didn't actually think it would happen or mean their vote. I was like "Nope. You need a hard lesson about the voting process. No take-backsies."

The thing about the Brexit vote is that when Ireland and the Netherlands voted the wrong way on the Lisbon Treaty, the Netherlands were overruled by parliament while Ireland was made to revote. The people who voted for Brexit thinking it wouldn't happen had a very good reason to think that. Plus I don't think Brexit should have been put to a referendum to begin with. Whereas with Puerto Rico, while the last result was ignored, all the mainland politicians who commented on it were very clear that they ignored it because there wasn't a "clear and convincing majority" for statehood. And with their boycott, they anti-statehood crowd have just provided such a majority.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:37 pm

D.C. should be a state before Puerto Rico. George Will needs to stop like 20 years ago and just be a baseball writer. There's no guarantee D.C. voters would go Democratic forever and ever amen. Maybe if the Republicans weren't so against city dwellers and minorities they'd make some inroads there.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby cmsellers » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:40 am

I'm looking at the media reaction on Google News. Most of it's just telling me nothing I don't already know, but there's a couple of articles I've found which make me want to bang my head.

Here's Business Insider saying "PR should be a state because beaches."

Here's USA Today running an article comprised of reader feedback, all but one of which is typical Republican talking points against Puerto Rico.

I'm sure I'll come across more. In the meantime, I think I need to make a Puerto Rico referendum bingo card.
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Last edited by cmsellers on Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby PSTN » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:32 am

I think Puerto Rico needs to develop some loftier goals than mere statehood. They should invade the mainland and declare America to now be a state of Puerto Rico. They can probably nab Cuba while they're at it.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby cmsellers » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:42 am

To see some commentators talk, they've already invaded the mainland where they make up the majority of gang members, welfare recipients, and Democratic voters.
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Re: Our 51st state(?)

Postby mancityfooty » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:02 am

It was a non binding referendum that doesn't mean anything, even on the island; and they are swimming in debt and want the other 50 states to bail them out.
*mic drop*
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