Grimstone wrote:Marcuse wrote:what would be the point in including a 9 year old child on the list?
He built an android, pod raced, and destroyed a droid control ship. 9 year old Anakin may be on par with young Luke now that I think about it.
old luke >= vader > adult anakin >= kylo > rey > young luke >= young anakin
This is such a weird way of looking at stuff. You don't see what the results are when you're looking at how much of a Mary Sue something is, you see what they did to achieve it.
Anakin didn't build an android, he rebuilt one out of scrap parts while working in a shop that sold scrap and ship parts. He destroyed a Droid Control Ship by accident, much like JarJar's giant blue ball. JarJar's not a Mary Sue either. As for Pod Racing, he didn't exactly win it by being the best, everyone else killed each other.
This is even if you take a children's movie, which have a huuuge history of making child characters overpowered because seeing children die is terrible for people tonally, completely seriously. Taken without the seriousness, it's complaining that the comic relief and child characters are allowed to do stuff that impacts the plot in a children's movie.
As for Young Luke DESTROYED THE DEATH STAR; He didn't do anything special in destroying the death star. He fired the final shot of thousands. He didn't even do the fucking trench run alone, nor was he the first person to actually hit the target. What you're complaining about is the protagonist of the film being able to make one shot on target at the very end of a large fight involving multiple people helping him, a ton of whom are explicitly shown as better than him, two of whom are given the clear to take the shot he took, one of whom makes the shot he took.
This is not even close to equivalent to a mostly grounded junkyard scavenger doing stunts in the air while a janitor picks off three brand new TIEs with ace pilots in a 60 year old ship.
It's not close to a prisoner under torture obtaining force powers that have previously been limited entirely to masters, and heck, literally used to illustrate a character taking on the mantle of jedi knight in the final arc of a three episode story. Leia was tortured too, and she had force powers. She didn't learn shit from being tortured. Darth Vader didn't even manage to detect she's a force sensitive.
It's not close to beating a trained dark side user in a one on one lightsaber fight, even if he got shot once. I mean, it's an OK excuse, but it carries the implication that Jedi are fucking useless in a battle situation if they don't have the CON points to be able to fight one untrained girl after being shot once.
On second thought, Darth Vader's a fucking robot who can barely breathe, forget fight well with a lightsaber, that excuse is weaker than it looks. Dark Side users are /better/ at dealing with injury than light side users.
Anakin doesn't need training from a droid technician to be able to rebuild a robot, random rural folks build massive projects from old tech IRL all the friggin time. Anakin doesn't need to have pilot or jedi training to be able to shoot the droid ship when in that same fight he has to adjust his helmet once because he couldn't see from it and lands in a droid ship by accident. Like, it's obviously not a serious victory on the level of the death star. Attack of the Clones doesn't elevate him to a fucking child prodigy or war hero. He's still just an angsty teen padawan in that one, if you didn't notice despite the ability of George Lucas to write things in the most obvious way possible.
Luke doesn't need special pilot training to make one shot on target through the magic power of belief. He's not given special consideration in Empire for it either, he's not the fucking hope of the rebellion. They fucking leave him to die on Hoth until Han decides to go looking for him, if you didn't notice.
Rey does need force training to do a mind trick. She does need lightsaber training to weild a lightsaber. If 9 year old Anakin had been using mind control instead of one stupid force pull, or teenage Luke had been fighting dark jedi with his lightsaber or using his magic to move the missile instead of just aiming it (normal pilots were fully capable of making the shot), you'd have a point about their lack of training.
As it stands, child anakin never weilded a lightsaber or used any force powers where it didn't make sense, teen anakin kept losing his lightsaber even if he was good at it (which he isn't, he loses a fucking hand to Dooku). Luke didn't use a lightsaber for any fight until the end of empire, where he loses a hand, and the middle of Jedi, where he's explictly coded by the story as someone at the end of what training he could manage, outside of learning more on his own (and redeeming Vader in the process). Luke's first use of the force is blocking the remote's blaster shots, which he does once, after multiple times failing at it. His second is aiming without a targeting computer. It's so OP that normal X Wing Pilots are expected to do the same thing. Are normal Rebellion people expected to defeat an injured Kylo Ren? If they were, then it'd make sense comparing Rey to Luke.