FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharmed)

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FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharmed)

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:22 pm

The headline pretty much says it all. At this point, they're calling the shooting a "tragic accident," since the guy was TIED UP in such a way as to completely negate the usual Bullshit Ballad of "he was coming right AT me and I felt afraid."

I'm starting to feel like it might be time to disarm our police force. I know that's NEVER, EVER going to happen but I want to go on record as saying we ought to because LOOK at this fucking story!
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby sunglasses » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:32 pm

The title does not say it all- in regards to the background of the story which is important, I feel.
In summation-

A man was kidnapped (Ulises Villadares) in front of his child. The house was tossed and the child overheard them say that the uncle, the man's brother, owed them 8K (he did not). The brother received a call saying that they were from a cartel and that the brother needed to come up with $20,000 for the victim's safe return. The police contacted the FBI who were able to track the cell phone and apprehend two persons, one (Cunningham) who was related by marriage to the brother. The apprehended people told the FBI were the victim was located (at Cunningham's girfriend's house). They then went to the house. Per court records, Villadares hands were bound and he was accidentally shot.

We really don't have any more information at this time. We don't have cameras or anything to show us if this was a tragic accident, deliberate malfeasance, disorientation, misfire, accidental discharge, negligence etc. There were several people, including children, present when the raid occurred-no one else was injured. We don't know how many times he was shot, how or why it happened yet.

A neighbor heard 4 gunshots. Where 4 shots fired? Witnesses tend to be unreliable.

I'm personally going to refrain from vilifying the entire police force and FBI until more information is available, but yeah, it's a major fuck up that they shot the guy they were trying to rescue. However, the agent has been put on leave right away, which is the right step to take. They've also reported it right away rather then attempt to deflect the issue.

Everyone is admitting it's a fuck up.

"The system failed," Conroe Police Chief Philip Dupuis told reporters during an emotional press conference Thursday afternoon. "We do this job to help people and it doesn't always go our way."


Strangely enough, a hostage/swat type team is the type of team I'd expect/want to have weapons. It makes no sense for a tactical team not to have them.

It's also not just the FBI investigating the shooting:
Because the shooting took place in the Houston city limits, Houston Police Department will investigate, along with the FBI and the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Attorney's Office.
Knowing that PDs notoriously don't get along well with the FBI, they'll be going over that with a fine tooth comb just to see if they can find anything egregious.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:09 pm

Also, keep in mind that the kidnappers claimed to be members of the Gulf Cartel, one of the largest in Mexico which is currently undergoing an extremely violent breakdown. These weren't some cops showing up to a local guy kidnapping someone and holding them hostage with a pen knife. They're the same guys responsible for half the kidnapping in Mexico, and for killing hundreds of people over the last few months. Breitbart seems to cover this the most, and reports that the deaths in Reynosa (mentioned in the article I linked) are around 400 now. I haven't link this article because Breitbart is unreliable, but given the statistics in the article I linked, 400 wouldn't surprise me.

Cartel violence on the US-Mexico border is an extremely real thing, and their (potential) involvement in this kidnapping makes things much murkier than they already are. Was the man killed just an innocent father? Was he a cartel member himself? Was he a Zeta and was targeted by the Gulf Cartel? Was the uncle in that situation?

Any time Mexican cartels are involved, pretty much all the normal expectations go out the window. Cartel members aren't just everyday criminals. They're not even Blood or Crip level gangbangers. They're basically terrorist organizations, and they operate as such. Without more detail, it's extremely irresponsible of us to pass judgement. There's very likely much, much more to this story that we haven't heard yet.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:25 pm

Go ahead and call me irresponsible then, because I will pass all kinds of judgment on anyone who shoots an innocent victim that is taped up and hooded. That's an important part of my outrage, a distinction that makes this case quite different (and considerably worse) than what happened to Mr. Finch after that infamous "prank call."

I'm sorry, but "cartels are scary" is absolutely NOT any kind of excuse for our "brave heroes in blue" to run in shooting at anything that twitches. There were CHILDREN in that house and this seems to have been a KNOWN fact, so you will never get me to agree that anyone had a right to burst in there flinging bullets around willy-nilly. We need braver and calmer LEO's, which we'll absolutely never have if we keep making excuses and granting absolution for this kind of incompetent bullshit.
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Last edited by DamianaRaven on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:42 pm

Honestly, who even knows what was going on? People in normal life situations don't owe thousands of dollars to Mexican drug cartels. I know it's allegedly the victim's brother, and not the victim himself, but the previously established cartel relationship makes me think there could very likely have been much more complicated issues involved. The entire situation was probably much different than FBI agents running in guns blazing and accidentally killing a completely innocent person in fear. It might be what happened (in which case, I'll gladly pass judgement), but who the hell knows? These cartels are way closer to terrorists than to gangsters.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:56 pm

The upside is that now the whole nation is watching this story, which means that one way or another, most of the salient details will be brought to light. We'll wait and see, but I'm not going to be all that impressed by how this guy's brother turned out to be a "bad hombre." I don't even care if the victim was personally involved with the cartel gangs* because none of the "fishy background" that might come to light could justify shooting a man who's completely helpless. There is no question or debate that his hands were bound with duct tape at the time of the shooting.

Since you seem to be sincere in your hesitation to pass judgment, I'd like to know what kind of scenario you could imagine that would make such a colossal fuck-up ANY kind of understandable. By all means, take your time and read multiple versions of the story before you respond. If I've somehow missed a detail that would change the landscape, PLEASE fucking share it with me because I don't actually want to believe what I'm seeing here.


*I know more about this kind of thing than you're giving me credit for. I even recognize that stupid H tattoo as a prison gang thing.
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Last edited by DamianaRaven on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby IamNotCreepy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:57 pm

I am waiting until we know more so that I can display the appropriately amount of outrage based on what actually happened, not merely speculation.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:02 pm

No one is speculating at this point. They shot the guy. He had been kidnapped and was bound with duct tape. There were unsecured children in the house at the time. These are undisputed FACTS, not my personal opinion. You're free to wait for "more information" before getting bothered about it, but I have enough already to raise an objection. You just can't go around shooting kidnapped victims whose hands are taped up, no matter what kind of frightening boogeymen have already terrorized them. Call me hysterical and/or irresponsible, but that's my personal rule and those chickenshit bastards broke that rule.

Don't worry - if there's some compelling reason that this guy "deserved to die anyway," that information will hit the presses in VERY short order. I'm surprised his rap sheet hasn't already been published for public perusal. Must not be "juicy" enough to warrant its own headline.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:11 pm

The "more information" we're all waiting for is what occurred immediately prior to the shooting. Every news article I've read states that it's unknown what happened immediately leading up to the shooting. All we know if that 4 shots were fired (maybe) and an innocent man was killed. Assuming there were 4 shots, were they all from the same agent? Were they all from the FBI?

Damiana, you seem to be of the opinion that either the FBI are the evil villains, or the shooting was 100% justified. Neither of these are likely, in my opinion. I would be very surprised to learn that shooting that bound victim was anywhere approaching the right outcome, or that the agent who ultimately killed him did the right thing. However, that doesn't mean that firing the weapon itself was the wrong move. There may very well be justifiable reasons for the agent(s) discharging their firearms.

The point is, whatever happened with the kid calling the cops, or whatever happened afterward, is mostly irrelevant. The most important question is the one that hasn't been answered yet. What happened that lead to the FBI agent firing their weapon and killing the victim? We have absolutely no idea, because it hasn't yet been disclosed. This is the key piece of information, and without it, it's impossible to form any kind of opinion. It's like trying to solve a math equation without knowing the operator. 2 2 = x is impossible to solve unless you know if you're adding or subtracting.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:20 pm

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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:29 pm

DamianaRaven wrote:
Spoiler: show
Image


Whomever she's looking at, she's looking back and forth between their two eyes, and it really bothers me.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:18 pm

I will say this much about the story, based PURELY upon speculation and personal bias:

Spoiler: show
Face tattoos are a fucking outstanding fashion choice! As a (mostly) law-abiding member of society, I greatly appreciate the time and mental energy I'm saved when someone decides to visually advertise just how little they give a fuck about me and "my kind." Helps me to pass judgment with a certain sanctimonious certainty.
If you're thinking about getting a tattoo right in the middle of your left cheek, please go ahead and help me recognize you on sight. In return, I'll gladly stay right out of your way and/or beeswax!
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:28 pm

When your occupation involves kidnapping, murder, and/or drug smuggling, face tattoos are a great choice. I bet you can deduct them from your taxes as a uniform.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DoglovingJim » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 pm

DamianaRaven wrote:There were unsecured children in the house at the time.


Hahahahaha, "unsecured".

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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby SandTea » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:25 am

It is upsetting that fn reality shows have stricter standards. I think "guy who shoots obvious hostage" would be voted off the island or whatnot. Even if there was some "trick" to spook him/her into doing it. That would still be a deal breaker.
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