Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

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Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:08 am

[NOTE: I'm going to link just a few of the articles in question here (not a significant fraction or even one from each site, just a couple of the ones that I could access quickly, because it's late), but make sure you have some ad blockers on if you want to read them and the unlinked ones because giving them page views is part of the problem.]

Who's ready for another violation of journalistic integrity from the tattered remains of Gawker?

You may have heard tell of sexual assault allegations roiling against Louis CK, going around since long before the Weinstein debacle but picking up quite a bit more speed since then. The originator of the rumor is a Gawker blind item relating a statement from fellow comedian Jen Kirkman about a popular comic who sexual harassed and assaulted her, which speculates that said comic is CK. Since then, nearly all of the sites owned by Univision -- Gawker, Jezebel, AV Club, Gizmodo, io9, Lifehacker, and so on -- have carried on referencing this as fact, referring to the growing "scandal" and numerous apparent allegations against CK while cross-linking to other articles written within the same collective to give the appearance of more evidence.

The problem is that not only has there not been an actual accusation from any apparent source, but Kirkman quickly clarified after the original piece's publication that CK is unrelated to her story -- Doug Stanhope seems to be the comic in question due to contextual evidence and an ambiguously joking Facebook confession, but I'm not sure of the case there so I'm not touching that either. Even if you want to believe the victim in most cases, there is no reportable victim in this case. This gets called out repeatedly in the comments of virtually every article (even on Jezebel, where the "TAKE THIS PERVERT DOWN" narrative has obviously gotten the most traction and outrage), but there has never been a hint of real acknowledgement from the authors, and the articles and hostile references whenever CK is mentioned continue.

CK so far has only given passing mention to the rumors and said he's not taking them seriously (which has been taken as tacit admission of his guilt), but if they gain any significant traction outside of Univision's self-contained grudge, he has real grounds to sue for libel. Even if someone steps forward at a later date with a real claim of harassment, as of now it has been reported on endlessly with no such sources. As it stands, it is, to put a fine point on it, fake news.

Now even as a fan of CK's work, I don't claim to know anything of his character; his new movie is pretty poorly timed even if it fits his anti-PC schtick, and if someone ever does come forward with an allegation, that's a separate story from this. I just don't understand how most of these sites can get high-and-mightily outraged over Trump's bullshit spinning, and claim to be ardent feminists, when they've visibly made a story up out of whole cloth and are just harming real victims by doing so.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby IamNotCreepy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:39 pm

I was reading this article on Slate about C.K.'s new movie, and they mention that he's been accused of sexual abuse and harassment.

That story references an earlier Slate story, which of course references the Gawker article.

Nice job, guys. I wouldn't have known any better if I hadn't read the comments on the Slate article, which all cry foul at the situation.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby gisambards » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:49 pm

Univision really are a stain on journalism - their sites manage to embody nearly literally every negative stereotype of the different types of news media possible. Gawker's shitty gossip journalism obviously being the most morally deplorable - as seen with this Louis CK stuff and also their handling of the Hulk Hogan situation, among others - but then you have Jezebel embodying every stereotype of the toxic feminist narrative - often focusing their most vitriolic attacks on actual feminists, often implying superiority of women should be the end goal for feminism, etc. - and their sites that focus on pop culture are among the worst for contributing to hype culture and, through their own social justice commentary, encouraging the forcing of faux-liberal politics into every aspect of creative media.
Honestly, the one thing they're missing is an Infowars-type site to cover the negative stereotypes of right-wing populist journalism.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby tinyrick » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:27 pm

This is the original article that suggested there was a comedian who was a serial jacker. It's also the story Doug Stanhope "admitted" was about him.

douggawker.PNG
douggawker.PNG (76.89 KiB) Viewed 772 times


I'm pretty sure Doug Stanhope's admission was a joke, cause in 2012, he was not starring in any sitcom and he wasn't being called "our nation's most hilarious stand-up comic and critically cherished sitcom auteur" by anyone. Both of which are stated in the article.

Edit: I'm not accusing Louis C.K. of anything, I'm just pointing out that the Doug Stanhope story is full of holes. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Jen Kirkman story.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby Tesseracts » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:53 pm

Ok... I know we aren't supposed to judge these things by how nice the celebrity in question seems, but really, Louis CK does not seem like the kind of guy who would assault women. He shows genuine empathy for women. I'm not a big fan of his or anything, but I saw that episode of his show he did about dating a fat woman.

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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby DamianaRaven » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:39 pm

"Rumors" don't cut it for me with this kind of accusation. I'd need to hear something (anything) from an actual accuser (even an anonymous one) before I'll take up a pitchfork and demand justice.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby 52xMax » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:49 pm

On the one hand, Louis CK is indeed a filthy Mexican, and we all know what that means.

On the other one, he has never said anything against gamergate or branded himself as a feminist and ally of women.


So, it's a tough one.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:46 pm

tinyrick wrote:This is the original article that suggested there was a comedian who was a serial jacker. It's also the story Doug Stanhope "admitted" was about him.

-snip-

I'm pretty sure Doug Stanhope's admission was a joke, cause in 2012, he was not starring in any sitcom and he wasn't being called "our nation's most hilarious stand-up comic and critically cherished sitcom auteur" by anyone. Both of which are stated in the article.

Edit: I'm not accusing Louis C.K. of anything, I'm just pointing out that the Doug Stanhope story is full of holes. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Jen Kirkman story.


Thanks for this. I mainly mentioned Stanhope out of some hearsay in the comments clarifying CK's innocence and speculating that Stanhope's "confession" might have been linked, figuring I should cover what few apparent facts there are in this situation. Unlike Univision, I can admit when I've drawn a wrong conclusion.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby Marcuse » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:47 pm

Pretty sure Doug Stanhope is the kind of asshole who'll jokingly admit to something like that in the name of a joke.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby SandTea » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:49 am

I haven't seen Tig Notaro brought up but I haven't read every link here. The spoiler is so I can separate my snark from actual input. The LA Times article.

Spoiler: show
Yes, everything eventually links to gawker. That LA Times one included.

The topic was raised because the upcoming season of Notaro's Amazon series, "One Mississippi," features a plotline about sexual assault, particularly a man in power who masturbates in front of a woman in the workplace.


Sure it may be a little specific but I'm sure it just a coincidence.

Without going into detail, Notaro told the Daily Beast that she and C.K. had "an incident" before "One Mississippi" and they haven't talked since then. She maintained that C.K.'s contributions to the series are in name only.


Heey, how am I supposed to know what "incident" really means? Maybe one just lost their voice?

Notaro's harsh words also come on the heels of her claim that C.K. plagiarized the "Saturday Night Live" sketch "Birthday Clown" last April from her short film "Clown Service."


SEE!?!? SHE CLEARLY JUST...


There is a lot of hearsay evidence on this, albeit mostly on podcasts and youtube but from the horses friends mouth at least. Some comedians talking about how he heard from a victim etc. As far as I know there haven't been any recent allegations but to me this is more credible than a Richard Gere gerbil.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:43 am

KleinerKiller wrote:The problem is that not only has there not been an actual accusation from any apparent source, but Kirkman quickly clarified after the original piece's publication that CK is unrelated to her story


That's not exactly what she said.

In 2015, Kirkman took to her podcast, I Seem Fun, to discuss an uncomfortable situation with a successful male comedian that was assumed to be C.K. “This guy didn’t rape me, but he made a certain difficult decision to go on tour with him really hard,” she said. “Because I knew if I did, I’d be getting more of the same weird treatment I’d been getting from him.” Kirkman is now backpeddling on this story, however, and has clarified what she really meant back on the podcast that helped add fuel to the fire of Gawker’s notorious blind item.

“There are rumors out there that Louis takes his dick out at women. He has never done that to me,” Kirkman told The Village Voice. “I never said he did, I never implied that he did.” Kirkman continued:

“What I said was, when you hear rumors about someone, and they ask you to go on the road with them, this is what being a woman in comedy is like — imagine if there’s always a chance of rain over your head but [with] men, there isn’t. So you go, ‘Should I leave the house with an umbrella, or not?’… Sometimes there’s nothing there. I think this might be a case of there’s nothing there. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and if any women want to come forward and say what he’s done, I’ll totally back them, because I believe women. But I just don’t know any.”


She also responded to questions about whether the guy in question was CK with "it's kind of obvious who I'm talking about", and then declined to discuss the matter further at that time.

So she probably was talking about CK, but she wasn't saying he assaulted or harassed her personally, just that she'd "heard rumors", and combined with his "weird behavior" toward her she was uncomfortable touring with him.

Roseanne Barr, meanwhile, apparently doesn't see the need to be that careful. (from the Daily Beast link above)

Roseanne Barr was far more forthcoming in an interview with The Daily Beast last summer. “It’s Louis C.K., locking the door and masturbating in front of women comics and writers. I can’t tell you—I’ve heard so many stories,” Barr said. She later clarified that the rumors “have been leveled and talked about for years” and that while she does not have “firsthand knowledge” of any specific incidents, she has “heard women make these allegations.”


And then there's Tig Notaro, who has been pushing for CK to address the allegations (same link):

His name appears onscreen during the opening credits in every episode of Tig Notaro’s One Mississippi: “Executive Producer Louis C.K.” it reads.

But as Notaro—creator and star of the Amazon series, which begins its second season next month—tells The Daily Beast, he has “nothing to do with the show.”

“He’s never been involved,” she clarifies. When I tell her that most people who watch the show probably assume he plays some role since he’s listed as an executive producer, she says, “I know they do.”

“It’s frustrating, because he has nothing to do with the show,” Notaro adds. And that frustration is apparent in her voice. “But I don’t waste my time on him or what anyone thinks. His name is on it. But we are writing the show, the writers’ room. We’re sitting in editing. We’re acting. We’re on set. We’re doing press. And everyone that’s directly involved in the show works very hard. They are decent, talented human beings. And I feel lucky to be surrounded by them.”

“But yeah, he has nothing to do with the show,” Notaro repeats for the third time, without using C.K.’s name.

Louis C.K.’s presence in the opening credits carries an extra level of dissonance this season because a large part of the show’s plot revolves around sexual assault. Specifically, we see a character forced to sit and watch as a man in power surreptitiously masturbates in front of her in the workplace.

...

Notaro says that she and C.K. had “an incident” before One Mississippi even started, but she declines to offer any specifics. “We don’t talk since then,” she says. “So as far as what he’s doing or what he’s done…” At that point she trails off and asks me if C.K. has ever “acknowledged” the sexual-misconduct allegations against him.


In light of all this, I'm staying firmly right here on the fence.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby cmsellers » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Relevant
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:44 pm

Crimson847 wrote:lots of quotes


Again, all of these accusations amount to nothing more than "he never did anything to me, but I've heard stories." I think that if Donald Trump has served no other social purpose in his life, he's taught us that "people are saying" is absolutely NOT tantamount to any kind of fact. I find it a bit odd that with so many rumors and veiled accusations flying about, there's not a single person who's come forth and said "this is what he did to me." Until I hear from that person, I really have no reason to believe that Louis CK is some kind of sexual predator.
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:12 pm

DamianaRaven wrote:
Crimson847 wrote:lots of quotes


Again, all of these accusations amount to nothing more than "he never did anything to me, but I've heard stories." I think that if Donald Trump has served no other social purpose in his life, he's taught us that "people are saying" is absolutely NOT tantamount to any kind of fact. I find it a bit odd that with so many rumors and veiled accusations flying about, there's not a single person who's come forth and said "this is what he did to me." Until I hear from that person, I really have no reason to believe that Louis CK is some kind of sexual predator.


One of the big things that always worries me when there's some Hollywood or celebrity sexual harassment/assault/etc thing, is that a lot of people always say, "This is rife, but people don't want to talk about it because they don't want to risk their careers" or something similar. This is totally reasonable to both say, and to feel, but it also makes me concerned that people will being to assume (and many do) that vague accusations of misconduct will start to be immediately accepted as fact with the defense that "the people who actually experienced it are just worried about their careers. They're definitely there though".

Hopefully, the number of people who have come out against Weinstein with specific incidents that happened to them will set the tone for expecting actual reports. It's awful that anyone has to go through it, but of course it's necessary to have real evidence, not just "I heard it so it must be true, now let's kick this person out".
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Re: Louis CK sexual harassment "rumors"

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:48 pm

I'll definitely allow for the possibility that Mr. CK has harassed and/or abused women who are too afraid to speak up against him. It's just that I can't use that possibility as an excuse to automatically assume he's guilty. I need to hear a direct accusation from somebody before I'm willing to think of him as a sexual predator. The problem seems to be that many people find him crude and/or creepy - moral indictments with which I am well familiar. I've been overly aggressive to the point of making people uncomfortable when I flirt, but the word no (or some direct expression thereof) is quite enough to stop me in my tracks. Maybe that's the problem here - he just has a weird and creepy way of flirting, but understands and respects that no means no.
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