http://www.cracked.com/article_20923_5-bizarre-realities-life-at-edge-gaza.html
I actually used all my down votes today on this article comments. So much trolling going on
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
aviel wrote:reasonable solutions were proposed. The only thing necessary for peace to happen is for the Palestinians to accept them.
David Wong wrote:7. "But this is the last non-terrible forum on the internet! The rest are full of trolls and Nazis!"
That's just not true at all.
cmsellers wrote:In that note, here is a fun little web app that you can use to draw your own borders in the West Bank, and it will calculate the land swaps from Israel.
The only thing that bothers me about the app itself is that I can't include E1, which isn't populated, but which most Israeli politicians want to include.
That's pretty bullshit, but unfortunately a premise even accepted by the Israelis in practice, if not in word. The offers the Israelis give the Palestinians tend to give the Palestinians as much or almost as much land as they've asked for.The first two are with land swaps. In the first case, the authors played up Palestine's "historic compromise," and backed the Palestinian view on what conditions should apply; indeed they applied those conditions to the app. For example neutral ground before the 1967 war counts as land that the Palestinians are giving up, while a permanent extraterritorial corridor between the West Bank and Gaza does not count as land that the Israelis are giving up.
In the second case, the authors note that Israeli land already inhabited by Arabs cannot be swapped for Jewish settlements in the West Bank, because the inhabitants object. Now the Lieberman Plan would also have forced them to swap Israeli citizenship for Palestinian citizenship, which is galling. But personally, I don't see anything wrong with including the Little Triangle in the Israeli land surrendered, as long as no current Israeli citizens lose citizenship as a result of the land swap, even if they decide to stay in their houses.
My third issue is with Jerusalem. If the authors are going to refuse to swap Arab land in Israel proper because the local Arabs object, shouldn't the same standards apply to the Arabs living in East Jerusalem? My understanding is that the Arabs of East Jerusalem generally don't want to live in a Palestinian state. If that is the case, it seems somewhat hypocritical to include their land in a Palestinian state against their wishes while insisting that it's unthinkable to do the same for Arabs living behind the 1967 borders.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
aviel wrote:If you include Ma'ale Adumim and surrounding settlements, which you realistically would, including E1 doesn't really change anything. It's in that area.
aviel wrote:That's pretty bullshit, but unfortunately a premise even accepted by the Israelis in practice, if not in word. The offers the Israelis give the Palestinians tend to give the Palestinians as much or almost as much land as they've asked for.
aviel wrote:Nah, I don't like this. The idea should be to minimize the number of people who end up in a country they don't want to be.
aviel wrote:It's actually the opposite: Arabs in East Jerusalem were given Israeli citizenship and almost 100% refused. But Israeli offers have ceded Arab areas of East Jerusalem to the Palestinians.
David Wong wrote:7. "But this is the last non-terrible forum on the internet! The rest are full of trolls and Nazis!"
That's just not true at all.
cmsellers wrote:But you can't chose to include it in Israel, even though you can chose whether or not to include the Ma'ale Adumim Industrial Park.
The idea that land swaps should be 1:1 is accepted by the Israelis in practice. The issue is on the margins, with the corridor in particular meaning that according to the app, the Israeli proposals are not 1:1. There's a set of map layers where you can see one of the Israeli proposals, one of the Palestinian proposals, and the Geneva Initiative.
They don't want to be citizens of Israel, but it seems that most of them would still rather live under Israeli jurisdiction .
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
EvilerDictator wrote:. There was a more muted one I passed outside a Sainsburys where they were encouraging people to boycott them because they sold Israeli goods but I don't think that really achieves anything at all.
We don't often get pro Israel or protests by Anti-Zionist people here because I think due to the large scale of the anti-Palestine protests they fear repercussions. I do too. Some of the comments I was hearing when I went out that night after that fateful chair throwing protest had happened with some old school friends and their other friends were beyond incredible.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
aviel wrote:I don't like protests and large group things like that. My dad took me to a pro-Israel rally during the recent hostilities with Gaza, but largely just to see my mom who was working there at the time. When you have a bunch of people there to support one thing, a lot of them are going to support it for dumb reasons, or are going to support something else as well that you find abhorrent.
David Wong wrote:7. "But this is the last non-terrible forum on the internet! The rest are full of trolls and Nazis!"
That's just not true at all.
EvilerDictator wrote:I wish people I knew could talk about this subject in this kind of balanced way. Where were you two when there was fighting at that protest in my city last time?! :P
David Wong wrote:7. "But this is the last non-terrible forum on the internet! The rest are full of trolls and Nazis!"
That's just not true at all.
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