JF Sargent

Discussion about Cracked.com, but not for comments on stories posted to front page.

More about the operation of Cracked.com.

Re: JF Sargent

Postby sunglasses » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:18 pm

I believed they were speaking of verbal and emotional abuse.

Which is still abuse.
  • 6

TCS Etiquette Guide

Rules and FAQs

Zevran wrote:Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speeds can kill.
User avatar
sunglasses
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 11437
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:52 pm
Show rep
Title: The Speaker of Horrors.

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Marcuse » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:06 pm

sunglasses wrote:I believed they were speaking of verbal and emotional abuse.

Which is still abuse.


Which is what I took them to mean as well. My problem is that there's nothing other than speculation and the term "abuse" thrown around a lot. The only quotes from sargent himself seem to be counterclaims that he's being harassed and abused in turn.

I'd like to point out that my interrogation of the material we have is in no way criticism of the person who found it. I'm grateful to Sandtea for finding them and it's really useful because I hate twitter and won't use it. However, what we have is not sufficient for me to even make a guess at what's gone on or is going on and I'm really loathe to condemn someone as an abusive person when I don't know them personally, haven't witnessed or experienced any of the events, and have no evidence, not even direct claims from people who do claim to be there, to go on. What we have right now is insinuation and hearsay, backed up by some texts that don't really say anything concrete either.

I'm not saying I don't think anything happened, because clearly something has, but the nature of that isn't apparent from what I've seen and I really don't like the idea that we can fall into the mindset that someone we don't like is accused of something we don't approve of and we believe it merely based on hearsay and our dislike of that person. We're detached enough from the situation that there's no need to rush to any sort of judgement, and I'm happy to wait for confirmation before forming an opinion on this issue.
  • 10

“Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien

“The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6417
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep
Title: The Pedestrian of Antarctica

Re: JF Sargent

Postby SandTea » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:02 am

To be clear, I am not one of the folk who disliked authors at cracked. Hell, I barely ever disagreed with an article. I understand the history (sort of) of this site and that this thread might be reminiscent of some old ones though so I get the wariness from the admins. Just was feeling self conscious enough that I felt I should say all that. (Also I don't twitter but I do google)

Here, though, is the deep, deep, deep dive.
https://twitter.com/ZealousPilgrim/status/991477168810045440

I have no idea why I spent so long scrolling as I honestly have no dog in this... I don't mean fight but I also don't mean I don't care. Christ, I'm bad at this. Anyway...

{name] In my experience, he was physically and psychologically abusive. Other people had different experiences.

[different name]In mine, it was psychologically and sexually. Also possibly stolen property.


I mean it's still not a specific or detailed account of an event but those are the words of two people making the claim. I'm not the cops or a coworker or anything. I'm just updating because sometimes I'm neurotic and the internet is my hell.
  • 6

"Draw me not without reason; sheath me not without honor."
User avatar
SandTea
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:01 pm
Show rep
Title: 3rdAeolus

Re: JF Sargent

Postby ghijkmnop » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:24 am

Tell me again who was the biggest GamerGate/check your privilege lecturer on Cracked? If this is even REMOTELY true, the irony should collapse the internet as we know it.
  • 4

Erogenous zones, I love you.
Without you, what would a poor boy do?
User avatar
ghijkmnop
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 8:22 am
Show rep
Title: Oldest member of TCS

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:38 am

According to a book I read years ago on the subject of partner abuse, psychotherapy as it's generally practiced is usually not successful at stopping abusive and controlling behavior toward romantic partners, because in the overwhelming majority of cases that sort of behavior isn't caused by mental illness, but rather by a particular belief system about how romantic relationships are supposed to work. If an abuser is also mentally ill or an addict, that can increase the severity of the abuse, but mental illness or addiction do not themselves cause abuse. Also, therapy can sometimes give abusers better insight into how to sabotage their partner's mental health--knowing how something is built makes it easier to figure out how to tear it down.

So if they're pinning their hopes on getting Sargent into therapy, that doesn't sound promising.
  • 1

"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
User avatar
Crimson847
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 2969
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:18 am
Show rep

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Marcuse » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:22 pm

Thanks for the additional info Sandtea. That does seem a little more concrete, and I know that we can't exactly ask them to detail things that would probably be painful for them. However, I'm still wary to call this a done deal when...to be honest these seem like the same kind of people that call unsolicited advice abusive and think gentrification is violence. I'm wary of taking the word of these people not necessarily because I think they're lying, but that I'm still not sure their version of "abuse" is the same as my understanding of it. I'm also very wary of the first post in that line being them mocking a tweet from Sargent saying he has a fear of being publicly humiliated. That doesn't seem like the actions of a victim bringing abuse to public attention, it feels shamey.

I do agree that it's super duper ironic to see someone who took such a hardline social justice "men suck don't suck any more" line be accused of arguably worse behaviour (assuming we think abuse sucks more than just being a bit of an asshole, I guess). I just don't take any pleasure in it, because honestly it sucks for everyone involved.
  • 5

“Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien

“The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6417
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep
Title: The Pedestrian of Antarctica

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:52 pm

I'm a little flabbergasted by the fans on Twitter who say they're shocked and appalled by this news. It's like that woman with the illegal immigrant husband who voted for Trump and then got mad when he deported her husband just like he said he would: I just don't get the thought process that went on there.

"Wow, it's really hilarious watching this guy viciously insult people all the time; you can tell he gets a real charge out of inflicting pain on anyone who displeases him, and that he's encouraged in doing so by his editors. I bet he's a great person to be in a relationship with!"

Honestly, that's what I hate most about the current political moment: the rush to excuse bad behavior if it's done by someone on our "side". What we forget is that abuse of power is powerfully addictive. Bad cops start out putting the screws to murderers and drug dealers, and if left alone end up putting the screws to Grandma over a speeding offense. Torture states start out using torture against terrorists and violent rebellions, and if left alone end up using it against political dissidents or anyone who looks at them funny. Someone who is permitted to abuse power against "enemies" is one step closer to using it against neutrals or even friends.
  • 5

"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
User avatar
Crimson847
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 2969
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:18 am
Show rep

Re: JF Sargent

Postby 52xMax » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:49 am

This seems relevant.

images (9).jpeg
images (9).jpeg (22.68 KiB) Viewed 124 times


To be clear, just because I never liked him, it doesn't mean I shouldn't extend him the same benefit of the doubt as anyone in the same situation. Innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around.

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing Sarge is guilty of is being a complete douchebag, but that's not a crime, and he's hardly the only one guilty out of that whole lot.
  • 5

"When in doubt... well, don't ask me!"
User avatar
52xMax
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: In all the wrong places.
Show rep
Title: Salmon the Wise

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Tesseracts » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 pm

Crimson847 wrote:I'm a little flabbergasted by the fans on Twitter who say they're shocked and appalled by this news. It's like that woman with the illegal immigrant husband who voted for Trump and then got mad when he deported her husband just like he said he would: I just don't get the thought process that went on there.

"Wow, it's really hilarious watching this guy viciously insult people all the time; you can tell he gets a real charge out of inflicting pain on anyone who displeases him, and that he's encouraged in doing so by his editors. I bet he's a great person to be in a relationship with!"

Honestly, that's what I hate most about the current political moment: the rush to excuse bad behavior if it's done by someone on our "side". What we forget is that abuse of power is powerfully addictive. Bad cops start out putting the screws to murderers and drug dealers, and if left alone end up putting the screws to Grandma over a speeding offense. Torture states start out using torture against terrorists and violent rebellions, and if left alone end up using it against political dissidents or anyone who looks at them funny. Someone who is permitted to abuse power against "enemies" is one step closer to using it against neutrals or even friends.

A lot of people who have been revealed to be abusers are perfectly nice in public. For example I'm on record on this forum saying Louis CK doesn't seem like an abuser but I was wrong. I'm not okay with thinking it's obvious Sargent is a bad boyfriend because his articles are obnoxious. I don't think anything about his online persona portrayed traits that are sociopathic or otherwise unusual, he's just a boilerplate arrogant internet guy. Personalities like his are a dime a dozen and I doubt people in his category are any more abusive than the average random human being.
  • 4

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9564
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Crimson847 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Tesseracts wrote:A lot of people who have been revealed to be abusers are perfectly nice in public.


Of course. To be clear, I'm not saying that every abuser--let alone every bad romantic partner--gives off clear behavioral red flags. I'm arguing that people who possess these kinds of behavioral red flags are generally, at the very least, bad romantic partners. Lots of jerks don't come with warning signs, but that doesn't mean you ignore the warning signs when they do appear.

I'm not okay with thinking it's obvious Sargent is a bad boyfriend because his articles are obnoxious. I don't think anything about his online persona portrayed traits that are sociopathic or otherwise unusual, he's just a boilerplate arrogant internet guy. Personalities like his are a dime a dozen and I doubt people in his category are any more abusive than the average random human being.


Is it really such a radical position to argue that someone who gets constant positive reinforcement for awful behavior in one context is much more likely to behave similarly in other contexts?
  • 1

"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
User avatar
Crimson847
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 2969
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:18 am
Show rep

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Marcuse » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:50 pm

Is it really such a radical position to argue that someone who gets constant positive reinforcement for awful behavior in one context is much more likely to behave similarly in other contexts?


I think it can be controversial though. Some people argue the same thing when saying violent video games cause violence.
  • 3

“Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien

“The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6417
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep
Title: The Pedestrian of Antarctica

Re: JF Sargent

Postby Crimson847 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:00 pm

Marcuse wrote:
Is it really such a radical position to argue that someone who gets constant positive reinforcement for awful behavior in one context is much more likely to behave similarly in other contexts?


I think it can be controversial though. Some people argue the same thing when saying violent video games cause violence.


AFAIK it's not controversial that there's a correlation between habitual consumption of violent media and violent behavior. We know that violent people tend to consume more violent media than nonviolent people; the question has been whether that's because the media is causing violent behavior or because violent people are more likely to seek out violent media.

Moreover, the defense of violent media in that debate rests on the fact that it's not real, and adults at least are thought to be capable of distinguishing between a fantasy world where such behavior is okay and the real world where it's not. Modern militaries do something similar in training, conditioning soldiers not to act without specific stimuli (for instance, a lawful order from the chain of command) that won't be present in civilian life. These psychological walls between reality and fantasy or war and civilian life are supposed to keep that training to hurt and kill caged up, limited to the specific context where it's useful. By contrast, Sargent's targets were very real, and no extensive military-style conditioning was done to keep his behavior confined to a single context, unless I'm grossly mistaken about Cracked's training practices.
  • 0

"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
User avatar
Crimson847
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 2969
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:18 am
Show rep

Re: JF Sargent

Postby 52xMax » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:18 pm

Crimson847 wrote: By contrast, Sargent's targets were very real, and no extensive military-style conditioning was done to keep his behavior confined to a single context, unless I'm grossly mistaken about Cracked's training practices.

Seriously? On a thread about a comedy website? Generally, I would communicate this sort of thing in private, but flankly I'm appalled. This here is a major overlook requiring court marshall. I even think corporal punishment is in order.
  • 0

"When in doubt... well, don't ask me!"
User avatar
52xMax
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: In all the wrong places.
Show rep
Title: Salmon the Wise

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests