Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby sunglasses » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:52 pm

reallifegirl wrote:
Had a couple instances of woman-on-woman groping though I think those were sort of...drunken not-realizing they'd overstepped a boundary?


Ohhhh, I have done that. I feel quite horrible about it now and I'm not sure why my intoxicated self gets so handsy. She'd have been right to pursue assault charges as well, I should not have grabbed her top half. I may have misinterpreted some signals, but that does not excuse my behavior AT ALL.

I'll admit, I have grabbed a man's ass in bars/parties in the past. Normally it was someone I was flirting with or knew, but I never thought about the implications before.

For years, starting as a child, I did not want people touching me and did not want to touch them. Hugs, hand shakes, shoulder pats, nothing. Then I realized that was kind of odd and went overboard with it. Now, I'm swinging back to more normal behavior patterns.
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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:52 pm

I can't fault the author for making a statistically-validated generalization (especially in an article based on personal experience), I just wish it were better-phrased for the sake of nuance.

I mean, Tess has a point regarding "re-learning" the same (often fear-based) lesson every time this particular story comes up. A lot of pushback from certain sectors also happens because the opposite is rarely given even simple lip service, which leads to a percieved double standard. I can understand why there's a degree of upset whenever one gender alone is implicated for behavior that ought to be discouraged accross the board, regardless of where the statistics fall.

There's a distinct fear of not holding women as responsible for their own predatory behavior in cases when it does occur. Again, not as common due to social norms, but anyone who's seen a bachelorette party or been to a bar knows that a women can get just as handsy as a man with enough boldness or drinking.

I've personally only ever been groped by gay men, however. It's usually a joking thing backstage between friendly cast members, but once it was a bit of offputting public grabass, and I barely knew the guy. I didn't really know how to react, so I went rigid and didn't say anything until he gave up and let go of my rear. Wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of looking shocked or alarmed.

College theatre is weird. I chalk that one up to the environment - lot of young, awkward people packed into one place for weeks at a time.
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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby cmsellers » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:40 pm

I've only been groped once, by my little brother, right around the time he hit puberty. Though he's gay, I don't think it's an incestuous thing. For him it was clearly a way to annoy/harass me. He was terrible to me from the time he was about three until the time he was about fifteen. (Plus, until I was 20 I made a point of appearing androgynous but barely feminine, and at the time I was wearing a flowery female apron.) Like most gropers, he denied doing it but I felt my ass pinched hard and there was no one else around.

I was pissed, but who wouldn't be if their sibling grabbed one of their erogenous zones (well, who aside from a Lannister)? Plus there's the fact that he's male. When I was in high school, several female staff members would run their fingers over my back or arms to calm me down. Though in most cases I wasn't attracted to them, it did calm me down because it was mildly pleasurable. I've never objected to women touching me on non-erogenous zones, but have tended to object to men touching me at all, except in limited contexts: hugging and visiting the doctor mostly.

However I think that part of my objection to men touching me is that some men will make physical contact a show of force--squeezing your hand or putting you in a headlock--and my brother mostly touched me in contexts that would be assault if we weren't related and children. So it's not so much that I object to being touched (outside erogenous zones) by men as the fact that unless it's in a context where I know what will happen, I'm a bit worried about what will happen next.
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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby Crimson847 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:36 pm

I've been groped by women, but it's never been bothersome even if I wasn't particularly attracted to them. Kind of flattering, really.

I get the sense a lot of guys feel the same way when a woman gropes or catcalls them, which is why it's hard for many of us to understand why women react so negatively to such things.
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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby NathanLoiselle » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:34 pm

Crimson847 wrote:I've been groped by women, but it's never been bothersome even if I wasn't particularly attracted to them. Kind of flattering, really.

I get the sense a lot of guys feel the same way when a woman gropes or catcalls them, which is why it's hard for many of us to understand why women react so negatively to such things.


Kind of like when I drop my pants in my neighbours front doorway. Right?
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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby Anglerphobe » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:01 pm

There is a considerable difference between men and women which needs to be considered here. If I wanted a woman to stop messing with me, I could make it happen. If the person doing the groping were physically equal, (or worse, 10-15% taller and 20-30% heavier than me) counteraction would be less effective and indeed potentially dangerous. There is no real moral difference from the perpetrator's view, but for the victim I'd venture that it is generally much more frightening and stressful to be groped by a man than a woman.
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Re: Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She's Groped)

Postby Crimson847 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:51 am

Anglerphobe wrote:There is a considerable difference between men and women which needs to be considered here. If I wanted a woman to stop messing with me, I could make it happen. If the person doing the groping were physically equal, (or worse, 10-15% taller and 20-30% heavier than me) counteraction would be less effective and indeed potentially dangerous. There is no real moral difference from the perpetrator's view, but for the victim I'd venture that it is generally much more frightening and stressful to be groped by a man than a woman.


Also something something testosterone socialization aggression etc. A small person who's really determined to hurt you is more dangerous than a large person who isn't--that's how a 5'1" woman can physically abuse a 6'4" man, if she is aggressive and he is passive. However, in general men are more likely than not to have the advantage in violently aggressive intent as well as physical size and strength, compounding their advantage in a physical confrontation.
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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