5 Examples of Racism In Porn

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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Taluun » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:03 am

LegionofShrooms wrote:Cowboy Bebop and Fullmetal Alchemist would like to have a word with you.


Which, tbf, are pretty much the definition of mainstream.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby SandTea » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:54 am

I really didn't want to respond to the "you can only watch mainstream" but now...

LegionofShrooms wrote:Baccano and Btooom! would like to have a word with you.


better?
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Marcuse » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:00 pm

Windy wrote:Male performers get paid less than women in the porn industry too. Clear example of sexism?


Pretty much, yeah.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Krashlia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:55 pm

Taluun wrote:
LegionofShrooms wrote:Cowboy Bebop and Fullmetal Alchemist would like to have a word with you.


Which, tbf, are pretty much the definition of mainstream.


(nervous sweating, trying to avoid being burned with the heretics)

woah, woah, uh... Planetes, Time of Eve, and Tokyo 8.0 are dubbed. They're not mainstream, are they?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, back to the actual subject. There is some racism, just some, in the fact that many of us find certain people less attractive or desirable on account of their race.

I once took a social philosophy class and one of the books we were put to go through was the "racial contract". One of the issues that they pointed out was that, when race classification became a thing that applied to certain people on account of their skin, it also did some work on making the "caucasian" look a standard of attractiveness that was physically valued over any other look. All the other races or classifications, in terms of their physical looks, had come to be regarded as less than attractive or even taboo. a professor also pointed out that this idea of attraction by race might not just be a matter of sexual attraction, but also a matter of how (un)comfortable we might be in the physical presence of that racial other.

Are we evil because we found certain races less attractive on a sexual level or in matters of intimacy? No. I wouldn't say so. I (My secular self) would think that everyone has an equal right to be comfortable with, and make purely individual choices about, one of the most intimate aspect of their lives. Even if that means we get away with enacting a racism of sorts, I would think it was weird to try to make this kind of sexual (dis)interest a cause of social justice.
However, its still racism and this is just one of the weird ways that racism affects how society's view, and our view, of things around us is shaped.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:29 pm

Krashlia wrote:Are we evil because we found certain races less attractive on a sexual level or in matters of intimacy? No. I wouldn't say so. I (My secular self) would think that everyone has an equal right to be comfortable with, and make purely individual choices about, one of the most intimate aspect of their lives. Even if that means we get away with enacting a racism of sorts, I would think it was weird to try to make this kind of sexual (dis)interest a cause of social justice.


Not only is it wierd, but grossly hypocritical. Hasn't "social justice" broadly advocated for sexual agency? Isn't demanding people alter their sexual preferences downright intrusive?

How I gratify myself in private and who I choose to be intimate with is nobody's goddamn business, so long as the parties involved are consenting adults.

In fact, I'd go the extra mile and say that the SocJus fringe is starting to horseshoe *hard* on this point. Such moral-imperative pressure applied in the bedroom is veering uncomfortably close to sexual coercion.

Not being aroused by something in particular, or even having a preference - these are not crimes. Accusations of racism or transphobia do not override my right to consent. This is not a hill worth dying on.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Kivutar » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:27 pm

[redacted]
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Krashlia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Kivutar wrote:I am exclusively attracted to other races, and white guys make me feel icky. Does that mean that I am racist against my own race?


...Thats a distinct possibility.


EDIT: For the record, I believe that this, evaluating attraction based on race, wouldn't be an issue without racism. (I realize that this is stating the obvious) I just don't think that involving the bedroom is worth it. And if it is a problem that racism exists there, it should be solved by leaving it alone and focusing on society's standards of attractiveness instead.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:34 pm

I don't think anyone is arguing that white women shouldn't be allowed to refuse sex from black men or for similar coercive legal interventions, and I don't think registering one's disagreement with another person's ideas about people of other races is necessarily coercive. Simply disagreeing with and challenging someone's ideas is not coercive, whether sex is involved or not.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby sunglasses » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:36 pm

Wow.

What you guys took away from this article is interesting.

What I took away from it is that the porn industry has very unfair wage policies and that the /industry/ has racist practices.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:40 pm

Crimson847 wrote:I don't think anyone is arguing that white women shouldn't be allowed to refuse sex from black men or for similar coercive legal interventions, and I don't think registering one's disagreement with another person's ideas about people of other races is necessarily coercive. Simply disagreeing with and challenging someone's ideas is not coercive, whether sex is involved or not.


If moralizing gets involved, that's an application of social pressure. Particularly with how readily "racism" gets thrown around as ammunition for outrage.

"Registering disagreement" is also a far cry from labelling sexual preferences are inherently racist. It's a loaded term, lately, implying a personal moral deficiency. Maybe if "racism" didn't carry so much negative baggage regardless of context, it'd be easier to use to challenge rather than outright denounce.

"Coercion" was a wrong choice of words, so I withdraw it.

Forgive my tangent. My initial post was in response to the tastes of the porn-consuming market being brought up. It's enough outside the scope of the article that it probably isn't a subject for this thread.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Marcuse » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:29 pm

Here's the thing, there's a really, really important distinction between things it is okay to expect or say on behalf of yourself, and what it's okay to expect from or say on behalf of a group.

I can say I find X group attractive, and Y group unattractive. This is an expression of personal feeling that means I am doing nothing more than reporting my inherent preferences.

What wouldn't be okay to say is that Y group is objectively unattractive and that other people than myself cannot or should not be attracted to them. Here I leave the realm of reporting my own feeling which I have unfettered access, and move into generalising about groups and expressing universal statements about subjective things.

It's not racist to express a preference for yourself. It's racist to say that your preference is a general rule or that people are less attractive or important or noteworthy than others purely because of their race. In the porn industry this seems to manifest itself as direct pay gaps between black and white performers doing the same job, and a lot of focus is placed on white women who choose to perform with black people because it might "harm their image" to be associate with performing with black people. Those things seem pretty racist to me, because they are predicated on assigning attributes to people based on race that determine one of those groups to be lesser than the other and presumes the preferences of the audience on that basis.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:39 pm

I would add that personal feelings can also be racist, depending on the cause of those feelings and the reasoning involved. For instance, if I ruled out shacking up with any black woman because "I like my women smart", that would be racist regardless of whether I'm demanding that others have the same preferences.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Marcuse » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:45 pm

Crimson847 wrote:I would add that personal feelings can also be racist, depending on the cause of those feelings and the reasoning involved. For instance, if I ruled out shacking up with any black woman because "I like my women smart", that would be racist regardless of whether I'm demanding that others have the same preferences.


That does fall within my second example though, because the only way to extrapolate the conclusion that one must rule out black women because they're not smart is if you make a general statement based on race that black people are lesser in terms of being not smart. It can be presented as:

I am attracted to smart women (which is a subjective statement of preference)
Black people are not smart (which is a racist statement of perceived fact)
-therefore
I am not attracted to black people (which is the synthesis of the two premises)

Without the second statement of perceived fact, there isn't a racist statement there. One can reasonably state attraction to smart women without racism by removing that secondary statement.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:03 pm

Crimson847 wrote:I would add that personal feelings can also be racist, depending on the cause of those feelings and the reasoning involved. For instance, if I ruled out shacking up with any black woman because "I like my women smart", that would be racist regardless of whether I'm demanding that others have the same preferences.


I agree. At the same time, that's dependant upon someone making such a statement of reasoning out-loud. I'd be extremely hesitant to assume such bigotry without obvious proof.

Edit: Marcuse said it far better than I did, in any case. Just caught the other post while typing this.

And in light of sunglasses' post earlier, I suspect we've gone far beyond the actual narrow focus of the article.
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Re: 5 Examples of Racism In Porn

Postby Grimstone » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:37 am

Krashlia wrote:
Kivutar wrote:I am exclusively attracted to other races, and white guys make me feel icky. Does that mean that I am racist against my own race?


...Thats a distinct possibility.


If a neo-nazi is attracted to black women is he not racist? If I am only attracted to females am I sexist? Is this your line of reasoning or is this a misunderstanding on my part?
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