4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Our thoughts about the famous Cracked.com.

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:36 pm

Aquila89 wrote:
Marcuse wrote:Being unable to give consent to something doesn't mean that the harm caused by negative actions isn't present. A drunk person who commits property damage still damages the property of someone else.


But if someone drunk has sex with someone sober, and the drunk person doesn't regret it, doesn't feel raped, where is the harm then?


Nobody will regret it, feel raped, or know they were harmed if you use just enough roofies to erase all their recent memories.

Namely, I don't think that guy was sober enough to even remember it in the next morning.
  • 11

Image
User avatar
NotCIAAgent
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 2914
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:33 am
Location: 90's, Canada Wilderness
Show rep
Title: Shitposter Extraordinaire

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:40 pm

Aquila, if it's not rape, what is it? "Wrong" isn't specific enough.

I found out who lost their virginity at age 8, Chris Brown. And he turned out totally normal, right? Totally not an abuser or anything.

Anyway, you said it's wrong but not harmful. If it's not harmful what's the basis for it being "wrong?" What are you saying here, should rape be allowed if the victim doesn't complain?
  • 12

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:41 pm

In doubt, try reversing the genders. That usually helps.
  • 10

Image
User avatar
NotCIAAgent
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 2914
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:33 am
Location: 90's, Canada Wilderness
Show rep
Title: Shitposter Extraordinaire

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:49 pm

NotCIAAgent wrote:Namely, I don't think that guy was sober enough to even remember it in the next morning.


I wasn't talking about just this case but drunken sex in general. What if someone did remember and had no regrets? Then, by definition they weren't too drunk to consent?

Tesseracts wrote:Aquila, if it's not rape, what is it? "Wrong" isn't specific enough.


I said it before, I don't know. It should have a qualifier, like "statutory rape".

Tesseracts wrote:Anyway, you said it's wrong but not harmful. If it's not harmful what's the basis for it being "wrong?"


There's potential harm. You can't know how they will feel about it once they sober up. And let me say this again, I don't condone having sex with drunk people. At all. Getting someone even somewhat drunk to make them more willing always sounded skeezy to me.

By the way, is Roosh a rapist? Because even after reading this:

One woman who repeatedly told him to leave while he was walking her home eventually let him inside her apartment to use the bathroom. Then Roosh says he kissed her (without saying whether she responded), and then:

"I went so fast in her bedroom. Clothes ripped off. Jam the dick inside. Barely any kissing. she was too drunk to produce much in the way of lubrication, so after five minutes we stopped having sex, if that’s what you want to call it. She fell asleep and started snoring. Then I got dressed and left while she slept."


you said: "The thing you posted sounds far more rapey than anything else I've read about him".

Just rapey? But not exactly rape?
  • 0

Last edited by Aquila89 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
--Carl Jung
User avatar
Aquila89
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:45 pm
Location: Hungary
Show rep

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:51 pm

Yeah, Roosh is a rapist, my word choice doesn't negate that.
  • 6

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:56 pm

My word choice doesn't negate anything either. It just seemed to me that you were somehow less eager to call him a rapist for initiating sex with drunk women than calling Schumer a rapist for having sex with a drunk man.

Tesseracts wrote:"On rape: I don't think Roosh is a rapist. The things he says he has done could certainly be considered rape, but he is intentionally skirting the line between what is considered rape and what isn't. He's like "I did something which would be considered rape in the US but not in Iceland."


Which "something" was having sex with a woman who, by his admission so drunk that "she legally couldn’t give her consent."
  • 0

Last edited by Aquila89 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
--Carl Jung
User avatar
Aquila89
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:45 pm
Location: Hungary
Show rep

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Taluun » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:58 pm

Aquila89 wrote:
I said it before, I don't know. It should have a qualifier, like "statutory rape".



If it has a qualifier, like the "statutory" in statutory rape, then its still rape.
  • 7

User avatar
Taluun
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:54 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Show rep

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:06 pm

The word "rape" loses much of its power if we use it equally to describe someone who committed forcible rape and to someone who had sex with a willing 17-year-old. Would you say "X is a rapist" - without a qualifier - about someone who only did the latter?
  • 1

Last edited by Aquila89 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
--Carl Jung
User avatar
Aquila89
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:45 pm
Location: Hungary
Show rep

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:06 pm

Aquila89 wrote:My word choice doesn't negate anything either. It just seemed to me that you were somehow less eager to call him a rapist for initiating sex with drunk women than calling Schumer a rapist for having sex with a drunk man.

Tesseracts wrote:"On rape: I don't think Roosh is a rapist. The things he says he has done could certainly be considered rape, but he is intentionally skirting the line between what is considered rape and what isn't. He's like "I did something which would be considered rape in the US but not in Iceland."

I said this before Crimson quoted the really rapey part. I did say his drunken sex may or may not be rape, but I had no details of the story at that time.

I came to this conclusion after reading that account of his exploits, in exactly the same way I came to the conclusion that Schemer committed rape after reading her story about her having sex with a man incapable of consent.

Of course, I dislike Schumer as a comedian and a person, so it's reasonable to suspect I have bias. I admit if I liked her I'd feel more reluctant to label her with a dreadful word like "rapist." Perhaps the most important lesson here is that people who are good and likable can still commit immoral acts. One of the most frequent complaints of victims is that nobody believes them, because they like the rapist and don't want to believe a friend is bad.
  • 10

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:09 pm

Aquila89 wrote:The word "rape" loses much of its power if we use it equally to describe someone who committed forcible rape and to someone who had sex with a willing 17-year-old. Would you say "X is a rapist" - without a qualifier - to someone who only did the latter?

I wouldn't, but this is irrelevant because as I already explained this is more analogous to sex with a 7 year old than a 17 year old. I'm sorry that you don't think a sober person having sex with someone nearly asleep is serious but I disagree.
  • 9

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:11 pm

Is statutory rape really less bad than rape rape? I mean, regardless if there was invalid consent, sex with a minor will still be statutory rape.
  • 3

Image
User avatar
NotCIAAgent
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 2914
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:33 am
Location: 90's, Canada Wilderness
Show rep
Title: Shitposter Extraordinaire

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:12 pm

I just want to add that while I admit to disliking Schumer, I dislike Roosh FAR more, and people acting like I'm on his side makes me want to shoot my self in the face.
  • 8

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:12 pm

Tesseracts wrote:I just want to add that while I admit to disliking Schumer, I dislike Roosh FAR more, and people acting like I'm on his side makes me want to shoot my self in the face.


Exactly what a Roosh apologist would say.
  • 7

Image
User avatar
NotCIAAgent
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 2914
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:33 am
Location: 90's, Canada Wilderness
Show rep
Title: Shitposter Extraordinaire

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:18 pm

Tesseracts wrote:I said this before Crimson quoted the really rapey part. I did say his drunken sex may or may not be rape, but I had no details of the story at that time.


But you said it after I quoted this part:

In one infamous passage in his book Bang Iceland, he describes how he "banged" one extremely drunk Icelandic woman, acknowledging that: "In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she legally couldn't give her consent … but I can't say I cared or even hesitated.


What more details do you need than Roosh admitting that the woman legally couldn't give consent? You must really hate Schumer if you're more willing to cut Roosh slack than her.

Tesseracts wrote:Perhaps the most important lesson here is that people who are good and likable can still commit immoral acts. One of the most frequent complaints of victims is that nobody believes them, because they like the rapist and don't want to believe a friend is bad.


So, would you describe someone as a rapist but a good person nevertheless?

Tesseracts wrote: I'm sorry that you don't think a sober person having sex with someone nearly asleep is serious but I disagree.


Don't put words in my mouth. Based on what you said about Roosh, I could equally twist your words and say that you don't think that having sex with drunk people is serious.

NotCIAAgent wrote:Is statutory rape really less bad than rape rape? I mean, regardless if there was invalid consent, sex with a minor will still be statutory rape.


You don't think that having sex with a willing 17-year-old (in a country where the age of consent is 18) is less bad than forcible rape? I think this is blindingly obvious.
  • 0

Last edited by Aquila89 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
--Carl Jung
User avatar
Aquila89
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:45 pm
Location: Hungary
Show rep

Re: 4 Gender Double Standards Everyone's Apparently OK With

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:23 pm

I don't hate Schumer and I'm not cutting Roosh slack. I'm done with this bullshit, maybe someone who thinks rape is a serious problem can argue my side for me.
  • 2

User avatar
Tesseracts
Big Brother
Big Brother
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:31 am
Show rep
Title: Social Media Expert

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron