5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Think

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5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Think

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:25 pm

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-famously-liberal-places-that-arent-as-liberal-as-we-think/

Well, this certainly is one of the most ATB-ish articles ATB has ever done. And the Title Guy certainly outdid himself, as well.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby TwoSheds » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:12 pm

I admit I laughed a bit when I came to number 2. Portland, California, New York... Canada. All of it.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby AdricDePsycho » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:57 pm

Yeah, I think ATB ran out of whatever he was taking to create good articles...

On the plus side, we haven't heard from Nicholas Pell in a while, so...hooray?
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby Tesseracts » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:41 pm

That's right, foreigners. Each state and city of the US is a beautiful and unique snowflake, but Canada is just a hivemind. It's only got Canadians. If one person from Canada is conservative, it means Canada is MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN YOU THINK.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby Kivutar » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:44 pm

Bigots gonna... big?

There is on weird thing that bigots on all sides have: they claim that their bigotry is justified because the other side were bigots first. They were just minding their own business when thugs/Mexicans/The Great Satan/dirty commies/cishet scum came along and started mistreating them, so of course they are bigoted now! They are justified!
Often, there is even a grain of truth in it, because all sides do it, especially opposite ones.
ATB is just a good example of a liberal doing exactly what he says conservatives do. It's not a political thing, it's a human implse.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby Aquila89 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:00 pm

Tesseracts wrote:That's right, foreigners. Each state and city of the US is a beautiful and unique snowflake, but Canada is just a hivemind. It's only got Canadians. If one person from Canada is conservative, it means Canada is MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN YOU THINK.


Well, the title did say "narrow-minded facts".
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby PSTN » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:02 pm

Tesseracts wrote:That's right, foreigners. Each state and city of the US is a beautiful and unique snowflake, but Canada is just a hivemind. It's only got Canadians. If one person from Canada is conservative, it means Canada is MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN YOU THINK.


The civil rights stuff is mostly a consequence of the Harper government and their majority. Having a majority government is essentially the Konami code of a parliamentary system. The only things that can stop you from enacting whatever crazy laws you want are the Charter and... The Queen, maybe?

Anyway, he missed a big opportunity to talk about our frankly abhorrent treatment of the natives (just Google "residential schools" for a sample), and the fact that Alberta at least practiced eugenics well into the seventies.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby TwoSheds » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:26 pm

Just to add on to what PSTN said because he made a good point; there are lot of things ATB could have said that would have been excellent. The capital of Nunavut, one our northern territories, is known for being destitute. The majority of people living in Nunavut are Inuit - a whopping 84 per cent - and the province as a whole is basically ignored. An argument could be made that racism is at play there.
There is of course the residential schools and the horrid mistreatment of Canadian natives, including things like the Oka Crisis, a violent land dispute in 1990(!) that occurred when the mayor of the town of Oka, Quebec, wanted to use land that was at least debately owned by the Mohawk tribe to expand a golf club and and build luxury condominiums because he was a villain in a Steven Seagal movie apparently. There is also widespread hatred of natives amidst communities in northern Ontario.
He could have talked about the Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipelines or the tar sands. He could have talked about the strangely unknown (at least when compared to America) presence of organized crime in Toronto and Montreal. He could have talked about all sorts of things.
But sure, extrapolating the actions of a single municipal police force onto the entire 30,000,000+ population works too.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:03 pm

The Portland one was a bit silly too, since it's a state law he's referencing. One that's never been put to a referendum, to boot. Oregon is pretty solid blue in Presidential elections and leans left on statewide referenda because the Willamette Valley outvotes the rest of the state, but when it comes to state government we're pretty split between blue and red, especially in the state Senate (where the bill to overturn that law died). The state Senate is elected by county, and most Oregon counties outside of the Portland area are pretty solidly Republican. It's kinda like saying Massachusetts isn't so liberal and pointing to the federal DOMA as evidence--most of the people who voted for that law weren't from Massachusetts, and likewise most of the people who voted to ban inclusive zoning weren't from Portland.

California, on the other hand, definitely deserves its spot on the list. I get why people see cities like San Francisco as liberal havens, but I never understood how the state as a whole maintained that reputation. Presumably people were remembering what Cali was like in the 60s and didn't pay attention to what's happened in the state since Prop 13 passed.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby NathanLoiselle » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:16 pm

What is this Nunavut you talk of? I've never heard of it.

Also, 'nother thing that isn't as liberal as it's been presumed to be. My bunghole. Yes, my bunghole.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby Paradox » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:04 am

I was hoping he'd talk about some tax havens...

I've been studying too much tributary law.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby williamthallis » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:32 am

Just wanted to add, I grew up in Orange County (moved out when I was 26). What he says is way, way off. And for some reason he thinks Pomona, which is in LA, is in Orange County.

California is a really diverse place with over 33 million people in it. LA and San Francisco are just two of the big spots on the map. There are a lot of places that are 'small town-ish' with the mentality that you'd expect.

For some reason he chose to pick on Orange County. It's not paradise, but there's a reason families (pretty much every color except black) move to the endless middle class suburbs. My best friend growing up was Filipino, other friends were Vietnamese, Mexican (which I'm half myself, no one ever gave a damn), and lots of immigrants.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:49 am

Crimson847 wrote:California, on the other hand, definitely deserves its spot on the list. I get why people see cities like San Francisco as liberal havens, but I never understood how the state as a whole maintained that reputation. Presumably people were remembering what Cali was like in the 60s and didn't pay attention to what's happened in the state since Prop 13 passed.


Same with New York. I know why people see NYC as liberal, and the city is pretty Blue, but rural Upstate can be conservative.

Then again, New York State has leaned mostly Democrat, so it's status as a Democrat haven can be justified.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:19 am

Yeah, I get the sense that a lot of people just look at how a state votes in Presidential elections rather than looking at what's happening within the state government.
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Re: 5 Famously Liberal Places That Aren't As Liberal We Thin

Postby blehblah » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:26 pm

In this post, ATB is generally correct about Canada, and he points-out he's focusing mostly on the government*. I've gone on a rant or two-ish elsewhere on TCS about our current government (short version - they are shit, shitty, shit). It is a strange thing that a majority government (PSTN nailed it - it is as close to absolute power as it gets in a democracy) can be formed by a party that gets significantly less than half the popular vote.

On our police, I think he's wrong. The "shoot a kid nine times" thing does, I believe, refer to the shooting of Sammy Yatim. Here's the latest on that:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/tor ... e26415027/

Two lawsuits, and this:

Constable Forcillo has been charged with second-degree murder after discharging his firearm nine times during a confrontation on a TTC streetcar on Dundas Street West at Bellwoods Avenue.


Let's also keep one small thing in-mind - that's national news about something that happened two years ago, not page three on a Tuesday in East Whatchamacallit. I see the point ATB is trying to drive toward - that being something about how our cops are crazy... but it just does't ring true.

Hell, we haven't had a really solid, police-inspired, race riot in... uhm... looking for it... ages? There was a thing in Vancouver, and another in Montreal, but those are about hockey... erm... anyone? Bueller?

Circling-back to the federal government - yeah, we have had a highly conservative bunch running the show for quite some time. Yes, that means things are generally more conservative; by definition, I would think. Sure, we seem intent on buying overpriced F-35's, doing lots of shrugging about refugees from ME while investing foreign affairs effort in squealing about oil pipelines and trade deals, of course, we rely on Australia to out-insane us on climate change, but, our Quebec French are at least as French as the French French!

*reads bit about France*

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mulcair- ... -1.2580427

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada- ... -1.3241895

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le4482390/

Merde...



* Does he fear the common Canadian? Is this his kryptonite, fore he seems gleefully happy to insult every other living creature, or plant, or amoeba, or virus, or chemical, or taste in music, to get a reaction. Maybe a Canadian sweatered him on the ice one time and it left deep emotional scars.
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