J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in chains

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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby OrangeEyebrows » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:57 pm

I'm calm, I'm calm! I promise! My apologies if that came across as hostile. I was feeling irritated by remembered childhood frustrations, not angry with you, at all.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby AdricDePsycho » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:28 pm

Edgar Cabrera wrote:
Kate wrote:...I must say, I looked it up and you are right. In fact this might be the stupidest thing I've read this month.

...

What the bull-fucking shit was that?!?!?!

I want to reiterate that not EVERY Steven Universe fan is like that (case in point: this guy right here), but yes, it was really stupid. Plus, there was this whole debacle about people calling themselves "brogems"...which was started as a joke on a YouTube comments thread (for once, the comments WEREN'T stupid).

Also: Starlight Glimmer, the villain of MLP Season 5, is probably comparable to Amon from Legend of Korra: she preaches equality by removing everyone's uniqueness and freewill (in Amon's case, bending, and in Starlight's case, cutie marks), but is secretly a hypocrite that doesn't practice what they preach (Amon is really a waterbender, and Starlight never got rid of her cutie mark). Starlight, though, is a complete psycho, and practically has a nervous breakdown by the end (PLUS SHE DOESN'T GET CAUGHT!!! SHE COULD RETURN, GUYS!!!!!). In my honest opinion, she trumps Nightmare Moon, Discord, Queen Chrysalis, AND Tirek (YES, FUCKING TIREK) as the best MLP villain, just because she is such a complete sociopath (no offense to Mr. Sociopath).
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:40 pm

...
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby Askias » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:41 pm

Kate wrote: So I kind of agree and kind of disagree. Have you ever met someone who just hates men? Or white people? And they say these things about men and white people, and that convinces other people to hate men and white people, which furthers the division.

Yes, the "less privileged" (yeah I can't think of a better term either) get hit way harder, but they also help feed the problem when they strike back in unhelpful ways. And by they I guess I mean we, too, since I'm a woman. I agree that individual slights do form a culture-wide problem, but that works both ways. It does more than hurt people's feelings, it:

1. Breeds resentment against both the privileged and less privileged individuals; white people and men (these are just general things here) will get offended by their feelings being hurt and more than that, being told to just suck it up, which leads people who were borderline racist or sexist over the line. On the other side, people might listen and start believing those things themselves. I won't blame anyone in the African American community for hating "whitey" because there's a long history of abuse and oppression and that's hard to move past, and racism persists to this day so they can always find evidence to confirm that white people are evil crackers who don't deserve respect, but it doesn't actually help and it makes the problem worse.

2. Leads to less empathy for "privileged" individuals and assumptions that they don't need help as individuals or their voices don't matter as individuals, since they're privileged. This can lead to things like saying that men can't be raped by women, or that even if men are sexually abused, it's not as bad as women being sexually abused. Men are cut out from having a voice on an issue that affects them, and it's thought to be the reason that adolescent male sexual assault victims are slightly more likely to commit suicide than adolescent female sexual assault victims. So it's possible that it literally contributes to people dying.

3. Polarizes people in a way that doesn't help; this is a lot like my first point, sure, but it's a slightly different thing. It's not to do with resentment, it just creates situations where people "stick to their own kind" because it feels safer. That means people are less likely to be exposed to people who are different from them, which makes them more vulnerable to forming prejudices about them.

So the big problem with all three of these is that they just feed the flames. In my opinion, anything that makes the situation worse is a bad thing, and I think it should not be discouraged to call people out equally for contributing to it.

There are productive ways to fight privilege bias, but being racist or sexist (even as a minority) isn't harmless on a cultural level, it makes things worse, precisely because of your first sentence in the quote.


While I mostly stand corrected, I do have some notes.

1. 'People care less' isn't 'people don't care', although I am well aware that most of the SJM indeed doesn't care at all. A hard counter can be counterproductive, and should be called such, but when we're talking about words, words that support an existing problem tend to be more harmful than the same words trying to create an opposite one. The highened reaction is a consequence of the existing situation that is being fuelled, rather than there being a possible hypothetical with as prime problem that it entrences the existing problem. Even so, I was downplaying their effect, stand corrected, and will take it into consideration in the future.

2. I am aware of this attitude, but it's not inherent to the point I tried to make. Not recognizing that problems stemming from discrimination are additional problems, and their absence does not constitute a removal of other problems, is a very bad attitude that is fairly widespread. Also widespread (and even moreso in SJW circles) is the idea that being part of a historically priviliged group negates any other negative consequences thereof. I do have to say that in your example, the statements that would be targeted as problematic are also the ones reaffirming the current problem. This is testament to the fact that these problems aren't integral: The fact that more than one group is harmed by these ideas is an argument for their 'special status', not against, if one doesn't make the two aforementioned mistakes and uses 'priviliged/underprivileged' as absolute designations instead of describtive terms that don't carry any 'more/less deserving of help/sympathy'.

3. Good point, the difference between theoretical thinking and the more relevant expected consequences. As with 1, I was downplaying this idea and will take it into consideration in the future. I was too shorthanded with the word 'Only' when I said 'only hurts people's feelings', and will be more considerate from this point forward.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby Matt the Czar » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:47 pm

Edgar Cabrera wrote:
Kate wrote:...I must say, I looked it up and you are right. In fact this might be the stupidest thing I've read this month.

...

What the bull-fucking shit was that?!?!?!


I... thought it was funny. :oops:
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby AdricDePsycho » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:32 pm

Matt the Czar wrote:
Edgar Cabrera wrote:
Kate wrote:...I must say, I looked it up and you are right. In fact this might be the stupidest thing I've read this month.

...

What the bull-fucking shit was that?!?!?!


I... thought it was funny. :oops:

Poe's Law?
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby NotCIAAgent » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:34 pm

AdricDePsycho wrote:
Matt the Czar wrote:
Edgar Cabrera wrote:
Kate wrote:...I must say, I looked it up and you are right. In fact this might be the stupidest thing I've read this month.

...

What the bull-fucking shit was that?!?!?!


I... thought it was funny. :oops:

Poe's Law?


Poe's Law? But the only mentions of Hitler in it were ironic and comparative!
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby OrangeEyebrows » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:36 pm

That's Godwin's law. Poe's law is the one where you can't tell the difference between someone being really terrible and someone making fun of terrible people.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby NotCIAAgent » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:39 pm

OrangeEyebrows wrote:That's Godwin's law. Poe's law is the one where you can't tell the difference between someone being really terrible and someone making fun of terrible people.


Lovely Orange, I wrote two articles about defending Hitler. I have the meaning of it printed in the inside of my skull already. I was being satirical, and you thought I was serious.

You have been diddled with, a la Poe style. <3

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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby AdricDePsycho » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:49 pm

FaceTheCitizen wrote:
AdricDePsycho wrote:Also: Starlight Glimmer, the villain of MLP Season 5, is probably comparable to Amon from Legend of Korra: she preaches equality by removing everyone's uniqueness and freewill (in Amon's case, bending, and in Starlight's case, cutie marks), but is secretly a hypocrite that doesn't practice what they preach (Amon is really a waterbender, and Starlight never got rid of her cutie mark). Starlight, though, is a complete psycho, and practically has a nervous breakdown by the end (PLUS SHE DOESN'T GET CAUGHT!!! SHE COULD RETURN, GUYS!!!!!). In my honest opinion, she trumps Nightmare Moon, Discord, Queen Chrysalis, AND Tirek (YES, FUCKING TIREK) as the best MLP villain, just because she is such a complete sociopath (no offense to Mr. Sociopath).


I don't watch MLP, but with Amon, I think the hypocrisy isn't really because he doesn't practice what he preaches, is that he kinda can't. I don't think Amon has the power to remove his own bending, and all signs point to him actually believing that bending is evil. Amon can be compared to a self-hating black man who joins the KKK. They know they're a member of the group they hate, but they genuinely think their group is evil/subhuman and they have to fix the problem.

Not that it mattered: Amon's plan wouldn't have worked anyways. Even if one's bending is removed, their children will be benders anyways (after Aang removed Yakone's bending ability, he had two waterbending children, one of whom is, surprise, Amon) so Amon's plan would have been destroyed within a generation.


It's sort of the same with Starlight Glimmer: she still acts like her method could potentially work. She keeps on shouting it as she gets chased out by the people she stole the cutie marks from, still preaching how "free will and differences between people are harmful to friendship" (although she seems to have her beliefs partially rooted in her own self-hatred). And she is probably the most complex and interesting villain on MLP (and if you like King Sombra...I have to say that he had potential, but the payoff was pitiful at best. He could have been better, but he barely talked and barely even did anything).
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby OrangeEyebrows » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:52 pm

NotCIAAgent wrote:You have been diddled with, a la Poe style. <3


Damn it. CIA the bunko-man lands a centre-target meta-burn.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby krankittoeleven » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:48 pm

NotCIAAgent wrote:
No, you got it wrong, is not a gender divide. If a woman likes Transformers, WWE, Call of Duty, great for her! You go girl, show them you don't need those gender roles!

Now, if a guy tries to get into girl stuff, he's gonna have a hard time. SPECIALLY now that the SJWs have declared war on the gays. But luckily, is not that widespread of a problem, being mostly restricted to the internet.


Divide may have been the wrong term to use. How about, I'm tired of bs gender role stereotypes. Personally, I've been given a lot of crap for liking sports, playing video games, dressing less feminine and generally being into "guy things" and for not wanting to have anything to do with child birth. So much so that people have actually suggested I get a sex change because they just can't wrap their head around the fact that I could like all of those things and still identify as a woman. And this stuff happens in real life, not on the internet.

I personally recommend you to be attentive and supportive, but don't rush your partner to any decisions, and if shows signs of depression, always suggest a visit to a therapist. It never hurts.


We both have had life long issues with depression and have therapists we see on an as needed bases, so we've got that covered. Her depression has eased up greatly since coming out a couple months ago, though, so that's a plus. I will always love and support her (even if I didn't want to continue a romantic relationship), we've known each other for almost 15 years and we've been together for the last 5. We've survived cancer, drug addiction, alcoholism, suicide attempts and crippling depression, a bit of gender identity issues sort of seems like child's play in comparison. To us, anyway. I just hope she's doing this because it's what she wants and not because she feels she has to in order to please society (I can't think of a better way of putting it, I hope that makes sense).

As for the decision making process, it's all her. It's her body, not mine. I've offered monetary assistance for future procedures and have given my opinion when asked for it, but the decision on how far to go with this is completely up to her.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby NotCIAAgent » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:51 pm

Well, sorry to hear about your personal issues relating to your tastes, but I must congratulate you on your posture towards what happened recently between you and your girlfriend, and the stoicism you're applying to the situation. Truly exemplar.

I wish you luck. Carry on.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby krankittoeleven » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:57 pm

NotCIAAgent wrote:Well, sorry to hear about your personal issues relating to your tastes, but I must congratulate you on your posture towards what happened recently between you and your girlfriend, and the stoicism you're applying to the situation. Truly exemplar.

I wish you luck. Carry on.


Thank you, kind sir.
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Re: J.F's article. Or the article from whoever has him in ch

Postby TheSyrupNugget » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:03 am

Tomorrow on Cracked: "Five Reasons Why Everyone's Tastes In Entertainment Are Perfectly Valid", by Adam Tod Brown
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