Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Our thoughts about the famous Cracked.com.

Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:10 pm

CommanderRidley wrote:I clicked on it, saw "Brianna Wu", and noped the fuck off Cracked forever.

Can we not discuss sexism without the known crazies? Also, can we talk about sexism in other fields than gaming for once?

Of course not, because nobody actually cares about sexism, they care about getting clicks for their shitty website after all the people who knew how to write good dick jokes left.

Well, dick jokes are possible triggers, after all.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby archaeologydalek » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:13 pm

REDACTED
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby archaeologydalek » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:17 pm

REDACTED
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby subotai » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:19 pm

Well, the opposite end of the spectrum aren't being given Cracked articles.

She had a career, yes, but nowhere near the level of exposure she has now. She isn't just making money talking about sexism she's encountered, she's making money by creating divisions, and reinforcing negative stereotypes of hateful gamers and weak, perpetual victim women.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby OrangeEyebrows » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:35 pm

I propose we kill all the male forum members and make them into pies. Who's with me, girls?

But seriously, anyone can be "given" a Cracked article if they can come up with five interesting and counterintuitive examples that fit a given theme.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby subotai » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:40 pm

And so long as it fits with the Cracked worldview. There just won't be a pro-MRA or pro Gamergate article unless it's severely watered down.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:42 pm

OrangeEyebrows wrote:
But seriously, anyone can be "given" a Cracked article if they can come up with five interesting and counterintuitive examples that fit a given theme.


5 Ways Schplarkldlalarbles are Spakoozning:

5.Tweezers
4.Oranges
3.Kataziggles
2. Ironing Boards
1. Zero Suit Samus
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby archaeologydalek » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:43 pm

REDACTED
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby OrangeEyebrows » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:46 pm

subotai wrote:And so long as it fits with the Cracked worldview. There just won't be a pro-MRA or pro Gamergate article unless it's severely watered down.


That's the nature of freelance writing, though. A website like Cracked has to have some kind of consistent style and worldview, because that's how it develops and maintains a loyal audience - people like to know, more or less, what they're getting. Sure, they could run comedy articles about video games one week and serious articles about investing in your pension the next, or alternate between being liberal and being conservative or flit about between age demographics, but that's no way to build a brand. In part that's why everyone was angry about the Scientology article - we think we know where Cracked stands on Scientology and it annoys us when that stance appears to be inconsistent.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:46 pm

Tesseracts wrote:I just read it. It's not bad. It's another one of those "sexism exists" articles, nothing really controversial. However I don't agree with this thing.
Every woman we talked to has encountered the attitude "You just need to suck it up and be strong." But, as Katie points out, that's putting the onus on the wrong person.

"I see that as kind of victim-blaming. It's not other people's fault for being terrible human beings; it's your fault for not being able to deal with it. There's something wrong with you, not them. And that's a really sad attitude for people to have to put up with. But it's quite common. I think every woman in the industry knows it, whether they admit it or not."

This doesn't sound like victim blaming. If it's said in a judgmental way, it could be victim blaming, but you can also advise someone on how to deal with trolls without necessarily blaming them for being trolled.



Agreed. This point is generally horseshit, since it's part of the usual "assuming malice" dance that every keyboard warrior goes through. It assumes that anyone who says a particular phrase or advises a particular course of action obviously intends you harm or blame, even subconsciously, and they need to be called out on some sort of complicit collusion with the patriarchy.

The fact that certain members of the social justice movement tend to automatically assume the worst of their fellow human beings leads me to think that maybe, just maybe, they possess an unhealthy and fucked-up prejudice and distrust towards other people. You aren't going to get far or effectively convince anyone if you villainize them the instant they take a particular position or say a particular term or phrase. Where's the compassion? Where's the benefit-of-the-doubt?

"You need to suck it up and be strong" can certainly be victim-blaming if put with that exact phrasing and stuck in the mouth of a strawman, but we mustn't ignore context. Similar (but far more tactful) statements can actually be calls for endurance and solidarity. The person saying it can possibly be insensitive, but they aren't necessarily blaming you.

Because, lets face it, the only thing we can actually control within our sphere is how we personally cope with hardship. Asking and encouraging someone to be strong in the face of adversity isn't putting the "onus" on the victim, especially if you also decry the behavior of the person causing them issue. You cannot directly control the behavior of a troll, but you can certainly take steps against it and find ways to endure or defuse it. That's the first step.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby subotai » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:51 pm

Is she being harassed by #gg though? The longer it's gone on, the more suspicious the lack of concrete links are.

Someone is harassing her, ##GG is criticising her. I don't see the inherent link as is sometimes purported. To support #gg doesn't have to mean to support misogyny.

Similarly, to support Wu et al, is not to support the same people who mailed a syringe to a prominent journalist (even if said journo is a douche)

As for the stereotype, I disagree. Internet culture is not the same thing as gaming culture.
An excellent example are the aforementioned douche, who has nothing to do with games, but inserted himself into the narrative.

The 'Gamers are dead' articles did more damage than a few loons ever could, and her promotion of that agenda IS her fault.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby CommanderRidley » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:07 pm

The forum ate my reply :(

Poor forum, are the admins not feeding you properly?
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby Jeckel » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:13 pm

I don't keep up much on this whole gamergate thing, as I'm a programmer and in my personal experience nothing matters beyond a person's ability to design and code, and the whole thing seems to be a bunch of bitter people on both sides griping at each other.

But, wasn't Wu the one caught trolling herself with death threats through a secondary account?
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby sunglasses » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:17 pm

archaeologydalek wrote:
Also, #notallcrackedwriters



Oh god.

Not another hashtag.

NOT ANOTHER HASHTAG.

Spoiler: show
Seriously though, go check out #ThingsJesusNeverSaid on twitter RIGHT NOW.
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Re: Gaming and women we know this dance already.

Postby archaeologydalek » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:18 pm

REDACTED
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