Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

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Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby gisambards » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:58 pm

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-religions ... lywood_p2/

#1 of this article is about how Scientology is a perfectly acceptable religion. This from a website that literally yesterday ran an article criticising Scientology, and has run POV articles about how horrible Scientology actually is.
So what happened? Has Scientology brainwashed everyone at Cracked? And, if so, are we next? What if they're already among us? Who can we trust? What do we do?
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby Masonator » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:09 pm

I'm doing my best to recognize that Cracked isn't a hive mind, and has writers with different opinions on controversial topics. I'm still having trouble accepting that Scientology is anything more than a scam praying on weak minded and vain people, but 1st amendment champions probably have a point when they say that Scientology is rightfully recognized as a religion. Shoot, Neil deGrasse Tyson even came out saying

"But why aren’t they a religion? What is it that makes them a religion and others are religions? If you attend a Seder, there’s an empty chair sitting right there and the door is unlocked because Elijah might walk in. OK. These are educated people who do this. Now, some will say it’s ritual, some will say it could literally happen. But religions, if you analyze them, who is to say that one religion is rational and another isn’t? It looks like the older those thoughts have been around, the likelier it is to be declared a religion. If you’ve been around 1,000 years you’re a religion, and if you’ve been around 100 years, you’re a cult. That’s how people want to divide the kingdom. Religions have edited themselves over the years to fit the times, so I’m not going to sit here and say Scientology is an illegitimate religion and other religions are legitimate religions. They’re all based on belief systems. Look at Mormonism! There are ideas that are as space-exotic within Mormonism as there are within Scientology, and it’s more accepted because it’s a little older than Scientology is, so are we just more accepting of something that’s older?

The line I’m drawing is that there are religions and belief systems, and objective truths. And if we’re going to govern a country, we need to base that governance on objective truths—not your personal belief system."
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby octoberpumpkin » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:12 pm

I think it's important to maybe present things from different angles and viewpoints, but I haven't read the article, so feel free to ignore me.

I am of the personal belief that all faiths are valid as long as they aren't pushed or forced on others who don't share those beliefs. I don't care if someone worships a desk, and I will respect that, just don't make me worship the desk or make important decisions that make others have to follow your belief system
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby sunglasses » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:16 pm

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscel ... -religion/

http://www.biographyonline.net/spiritua ... -cult.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... s_it_.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eliyahu-f ... 96139.html

Some choice quotes:

The distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated


Summary:
1. Cults and religions are ways in which people can belong to a group and receive a way to interact with God and the world.
2. Cults are generally considered to be secretive and illegitimate whereas religion is open and legitimate.
3. Cults are joined through coercive persuasion whereas religion is generally inherited.

Read more: Difference Between Cult and Religion | Difference Between | Cult vs Religion http://www.differencebetween.net/miscel ... z3WA3yZZJk


Many scholars no longer use the term ‘cult’ except in the case of groups which exhibit extreme forms of manipulation and mind control such as the David Quresh.


Seeing as how those who leave Scientology are treated very, very poorly-I'd still consider them a cult.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby gisambards » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:21 pm

Personally, I would define Mormonism as a cult - the only reason it's seen as more acceptable is because people are born into it, and that's a big difference: almost every Scientologist chose Scientology, while most Mormons were born into it.
And the whole Elijah thing at Seder's is a tradition - no-one expects Elijah to physically come in, that's not the point, it's just supposed to just represent him being there.

And while I don't begrudge anyone purely for their religious beliefs, given that Scientology is so clearly a scam (and, as sunglasses points out, a cult), it's hard not to be a little critical of anyone who falls for it.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby thatindianguy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:37 pm

My two cents are every religions beliefs are from an objective point of view, nuts (I mean hello I have an immortal monkey god who tried to eat the sun when he was 4) so that's not a valid critique, all religions have factions that have done awful things, child abuse, discrimination etc. But what Scientoligists apart is that there's no real non-crazy faction .
The central church is a money milking machine, they officially (well covertly but you know what I mean) have tried to ruin the lives of people who speak out against them. Any non-crazy ones are just ones who aren't in too deep or the celebrities they keep away from the shit side so they can keep using them for P.R.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby OrangeEyebrows » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:41 pm

I'd say the difference between a religion and a cult is one of intent (cults intend to coerce and control for gain), but then I'm a wide-eyed Polyanna idealist with rose-tinted spectacles who goes around singing duets with bluebirds and stuff.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby FieldMarshalFry » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:44 pm

*clears throat* attention Scientology, as Supreme Commander of the Imperial Royal Cracked Army and Comment Section Militia, I am informing you that if you attempt to sue Cracked a state of War shall exist between The Comment Section/Cracked Alliance and your cult, we have lawyers, a large loyal community on which the sun never sets, and the truth on our side, you have nothing to gain and a lot to loose! do not say you weren't warned!
and does anyone have any Anonymous contacts? it may be time to restart Operation Chanology!
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby FieldMarshalFry » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:46 pm

and everyone watch this
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby ShuaiGuy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:47 pm

<Redacted>
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Last edited by ShuaiGuy on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby Tesseracts » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:47 pm

And, yes, they've done some bad stuff, but what religion hasn't, honestly?
BULLETPROOF ARGUMENT.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby thatindianguy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:51 pm

Attention Scientology as the resident Not Crazy Person here, I must inform you that TCS does not have any capacity to harm you and Fry is nuts.

Please don't sue Tess into penury and have her sent to some type of victorian era asylum.

I however am safe as I am in India. If Xenu tries any of his shit here, the Hindu pantheon is going to take him out back and beat the crap outta him, while the God of Adam keeps lookout and Buddha preps the alibis.

So yeah you all suck.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby thatindianguy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:53 pm

Also all that Amish stuff in the article is recycled from another article.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby Masonator » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:00 pm

gisambards wrote:Personally, I would define Mormonism as a cult - the only reason it's seen as more acceptable is because people are born into it, and that's a big difference: almost every Scientologist chose Scientology, while most Mormons were born into it.


And I believe this was Neil deGrasse Tyson's point. Mormonism has been around a while, long enough for people to have raised their children as Mormons. Therefore, it's seen as legitimate. What makes it a cult though? We certainly can't use subjective standards like, their beliefs are crazy. Some Mormon groups shun those who leave the church, which, if we're going by Sunglasses definition of a cult (a cult is determined by how it treats members who want to leave), might be enough to qualify. Other Mormon groups are just as welcoming to non-believers and former members as they are to current members. I wouldn't qualify Mormonism as a whole as a cult, but certainly some Mormon groups exhibit cultish behavior. However, I could say the same thing about every religion in the world, so it's fairly meaningless.

I think the point Tyson misses, and granted, he admits that he hasn't even seen the documentary that was the basis for the question, is that Scientology (like, the actual organization, not just extremist members) has a long history of harassing former members and suing everyone in sight. These are not the practices of a legitimate religion.

gisambards wrote:And the whole Elijah thing at Seder's is a tradition - no-one expects Elijah to physically come in, that's not the point, it's just supposed to just represent him being there.


And Tyson also addressed that, noting that some members just treat it as a ritual. But again, we don't want to go down the rabbit hole of which religion has the crazier beliefs, and making value judgments based on that. Militant atheists would consider the term 'legitimate religions' an oxymoron for those exact reasons, so arguing that Jonah getting swallowed by a whale was just a parable while say, mocking the belief in Xenu, just becomes a waste of time.

gisambards wrote:And while I don't begrudge anyone purely for their religious beliefs, given that Scientology is so clearly a scam (and, as sunglasses points out, a cult), it's hard not to be a little critical of anyone who falls for it.


I have had relatively intelligent friends fall into these kind of traps, though not specifically Scientology. It was usually due to emotional vulnerability coupled with ignorance of the group. Most of the members of these cults deserve more pity and support than criticism.
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Re: Cracked & Scientology: the hell just happened?

Postby CarrieVS » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:05 pm

OrangeEyebrows wrote:I'm a wide-eyed Polyanna idealist with rose-tinted spectacles who goes around singing duets with bluebirds and stuff.


Really? Bluebirds are exclusive to the Americas. Perhaps it's bluetits you mean?
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