I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

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I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby EvilerDictator » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:11 pm

http://www.cracked.com/article_22110_5-horrifying-realities-testing-drugs-lab-animals.html

I hear this one became a bit of a hot topic with people accusing the author of lying. I couldn't read beyond the first section because it was gross.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby sunglasses » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:46 pm

I'm not reading it.

Nope.

No. No. No. No. NO.

Edit and extention:

I mainly can't read because I have had ferrets. For those of you who don't know, a major ferret breeder in the states, Marshall Ferrets breeds and sells ferrets into research.

Although all but one of my ferrets have passed on, I cannot snuggle her poor little elderly frame and imagine her as a test subject.

A note asides for those who may become interested in owning a ferret in the states. Path Valley Ferrets, despite their aged website, do NOT sell or breed for research. Unlike Marshall ferrets, they do not have an ear tattoo. I have noticed, on the whole, that they can initially be a little more full of spunk when young. Also, there are many people who have ferrets but might not be able to keep them. So, if you want one, think about adopting or resuing one and consider Path Valley instead of Marshall.

Also, Plague Dogs. I cannot hear about animal testing without thinking of Plague Dogs.
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Last edited by sunglasses on Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby JamishT » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:49 pm

Yeah, I read at least 3 or 4 comments from people who claimed to work in that field contradicting the author, but I think crap like that happens sometimes. And really, I'm mostly okay with it besides the unnecessary pain.


Edit: spelling and clarifications
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Last edited by JamishT on Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby skooma » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:54 pm

I refused to read it past the warning, as I already know about this, and am reasonably sure that if they're accusing the author of lying, they did a good job. I hope a lot of people read that one. There are of course much better and far more effective methods of testing, commonly in use in other countries, but of course we lag behind, because fractions of pennies to be accumulated by the dirtbags who benefit.

No news there, but I really do love seeing anything that gets this kind of info out to real people and broader audience; sure, everyone seems to know it's awful, but are usually missing that familiarity with the details to change anything. I do know a lot of the most well known cosmetics companies and such have finally cut out animal testing (to the very significant benefit of cosmetics testing), and dearly hope we can take that farther. Awareness always seems to be key, the trouble is just how terrifying the details needed for animal issues need to be, and yeah, I was afraid to read farther too.

I really hope someone comes through with more solid facts, since this is my day to start being drugged and face (well never mind, other thread), but just wanted to weigh in now at least.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby Aquila89 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:58 pm

Someone in the comments brought up PETA, because of course. As I have already said here, "In every conversation that has anything to do with animal rights, somebody must bring up PETA and the fact that they euthanize animals. It's a time-honored tradition."

sunglasses wrote:Also, Plague Dogs. I cannot hear about animal testing without thinking of Plague Dogs.


Richard Adams claims in the foreword to The Plague Dogs that while Animal Research: Scientific and Experimental does not exist, but the experiments described were all carried out in reality somewhere. For instance, there's an experiment where a monkey is kept in complete sensory deprivation; that's an experiment Harry Harlow did in the 1970s.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby sunglasses » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:07 pm

Someone brought up PETA and euthinasia again? Let me mark that off my comment section bingo card.

Also, it somewhat surprises me that people aren't aware that there are other organizations that support animal rights. Like SHARK- showing animals respect and kindness.

There's also some specifically focused on animal testing that aren't PETA.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby Aquila89 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:16 pm

I donated to Mercy for Animals. They sent me a "Proud Member" sticker. I thought "I should put it on my bag... no, people would see it."
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:18 pm

Parasyte has probably the most accurate depiction of animals rights/enviromental extremists- a bunch of creatures going around wreaking havoc, all the while having a deep seething hatred over the fact that they possess intelligence.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby COBRA! » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:22 am

sunglasses wrote:I'm not reading it.

Nope.

No. No. No. No. NO.


Pretty much my reaction as well. I get choked up during commercials that show sad animals at the pound. I don't need whatever evil is lurking in this article stuck in my head.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby skooma » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:38 am

I found some things from general science sources that don't seem to have any agenda, so why not start with this brief overview from Planet Science, which appears to be targeted to young people, while covering all kinds of different things, I think they do a good job that would benefit Cracked's commenters, at the very least.

This is more in-depth, from Independent Science News, which also covers lot of other things, i.e., don't see any bias. That one includes a ref to the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, an anti animal testing non-profit made entirely of (human) med school graduates. Which just doesn't surprise me, doctors I've had that I'd call good at their job often have pets from the species they've see go through so much, had 2 mice from a friend who raised her girls with mice and rats after pre-med.

What I think Sunglasses has in mind is the Anti-Vivisection Society, which I always just remember happened when a doctor met a vet and they got married, and for that at least gets a biased link.

The general idea is that it simply doesn't work well, things that tested great on animals turn out to kill humans and vice versa, while we have much more effective approaches now that don't really cost much more, especially if this was a parallel universe where better science could be related to costs without being laughed out of the room.

Understanding Animal Research.org is a pro testing site, although as someone who has both multiple sclerosis and cancer, I just feel like punching everyone concerned to death for the results of their views, before even considering where they came from. The medical industry sucks in so many unrelated ways and I hate it's guts would be the point there, so I couldn't be unbiased about the site (which obviously has an agenda) regardless of my views on animal testing, because yeah, it does appear to be pimping for the already powerful status quo, and I think has the feel of the vagueness of propaganda.

Several others from science related sources I can't see a bias in, this one nails things especially clearly for the context of pros and cons, from the Scientist.

Popular Science has a good article, couldn't be less biased. The only one I recognize (I'm not sciencey) is New Scientist, and naturally their article is a more abstract and futuristic angle without going near the broader controversy at all.

Actually the same is fair to say for most of these, and is a really pleasant surprise for me, so I'm way impressed with all the general non-agenda science stuff so strongly "against" animal research, although unbiased means the term against, while obvious and clear enough in these cases, doesn't even apply, at least not in the usage of a non-scientific controversy. BTW this is from searching just "animal testing science", so not really anything pro-testing, I'm not just avoiding it or something. Now if more people just paid attention to science - I'm doing this pretty fast (yeah contending with bb code is still my tripping point), so I hope TCSers with more acumen for life sciences will follow up and dazzle us.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby sunglasses » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:16 am

Yeah, I was thinking of aavs.


It's just that, when it comes to many medical treatments, we got fucked bad when Bush killed outlawed many of the stem cell lines.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:42 am

Ericthebearjew wrote:Parasyte has probably the most accurate depiction of animals rights/enviromental extremists- a bunch of creatures going around wreaking havoc, all the while having a deep seething hatred over the fact that they possess intelligence.


Indeed
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby skooma » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:55 am

So the Independent Science News is covering "by far the most comprehensive" study to conclude that animal testing sucks as applied to human disease, going on to say "the public is probably being badly served by much of the money spent on medical research" because of it.

It seems like the most helpful article, essentially saying that using such different physiologies, to oversimplify, just doesn't work, and that's looking like the results of pretty much all related studies, while the pro-testing argument isn't just harder to find, it's completely vague and says nothing so much as platitudes about how this "will" help and that what we've got now "came from" animal research, which obviously should be checked more carefully. I'm just getting a clear impression that overall the results are more random than anything.

Obviously I'm biased, but this is interesting, from the same article: "animal research is now big business. One genetically engineered mouse can cost $100,000 while a mouse treadmill can set taxpayers back $9,600 (Greek and Swingle Greek, 2003). For medical researchers, animal research offers a steady income and a successful career pathway regardless of whether, as in the field of inflammation, experiments deliver practical benefits to patients. These are just some of the entrenched interests maintaining the animal testing system."

AHA is what I thinks.

In better news, the Scientist's article is saying animal testing will be extinct before long, having gone down by half since the 70s, and being replaced by the far more useful cell culture tech I had in mind. Others are with New Scientist in looking ahead at computer modeling (I can't help thinking a la Cracked, as their science stuff typically seems a long damn way from realistic for the foreseeable future), but that's already underway at least.

All seem to see animal testing fading away for reasons having nothing to do with the Cracked article, even though I like awareness for animal cruelty concerns. Of course the most useful studies are in vivo, on living humans or parts thereof, which is why cell cultures work so much better. The computer models are showing much higher accuracy than animal testing so far too, not that that seems to be saying a lot, hard to pin down the math on that much fail.
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby DoglovingJim » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:58 am

Due to the content in that article I made a promise for pictures of puppies.


Here they are, only one of the pictures in my collection...
DoglovingJim.jpg
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Cracked.com wrote:Initially, his interest in animals was "primarily a sexual attraction," but as he grew older, he also "developed the emotional attraction." We guess we could call what Jim does ... dog-lovin'
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Re: I Tested Drugs on Animals: 5 Insane Things I Learned

Postby sunglasses » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:30 pm

I am glad to hear its slowly dying out, skooma. I just wish it was happening quicker. We have the ability to keep countless cell lines alive and viable that have already come from said animals. We don't need to keep it up.

And now to murder everyone's feels:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features ... -post.html

There is an article about beagles that were rescued and adopted after being used for research. Motherfucking beagles.

And here are some emergency gifs to make life better:

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