6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to Male

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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby Jack Road » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:59 am

I don't really have a problem with the comments. As I've said many times before, silencing the misinformed and the prejudiced does not suddenly make them informed or accepting. They just keep talking somewhere else. Better to let them talk outside their bubble, where they can interact (however badly) with people who disagree with them.

So there is a lot of confusion and vitriol. Of course there is. This is an article about a physically female man who feels like he is a man, and is taking steps to live more comfortably as the gender he chooses to associate with. That's really fucking confusing for people. Fucking confusing for me. And when things get confusing, people get scared. And fear leads to anger, and anger leads to the dark side, and the dark side posts misinformed or hurtful comments on Cracked.com. Or some such thing. I fell asleep before Luke got to Endor.

Cracked is a website owned by a company. They have the right to do whatever they want with their property, and can limit any and all conversation on their website without violating freedom of speech. But, I mean, I really don't think they should? I have a moral objection, not a rights objection. I'm morally opposed to all forms of censorship on any level.

As far as why Cracked hasn't shut off comments to this article yet. I presumed from their memo on it that they were just going to limit comments to content that has previously produced a great deal of personal threats of harm to the authors. And by the way, I can totally understand them being pissed that some of us are in there going like "come to our site." Shit son, if I was employed by Demand Media, and tasked with banning users, I'd expect an actual requirement of my job to be banning every single person who tried to redirect traffic to another site.

As far as the actual content of the article, there is a host of disorders associated with the totally not a disorder classification of transsexual. Not all people that choose to associate as a different gender from their birth gender have any of these disorders. And not all people content with associating with their birth gender are free of these disorders. Regardless, modern psychology as a whole focuses on the desired outcome of the patient in all of these disorders, stating (and I think rightfully so) that allowing the patient the ability to choose their own outcome is healthier than attempting to convince them to associate with their birth gender. Again, and I cannot express this firmly enough, transsexualism in and of itself is not recognized as a disorder. It is a social construct, and quite often contains disorders in itself, but is not itself a disorder. I'll admit that the percentage of transsexuals with disorders like gender dysphoria is much higher than, say trauma patients with PTSD. But no matter how high the percentage, it does not make transsexualism itself a disorder.

The rest of the elements he posts are just limits created by the existence of the category he is in, and have nothing to do with intentional discrimination or prejudice, although again, it may contain elements of them. I would be more than happy to date a trans-man, but if I was not willing, I cannot just be declared to be prejudiced because of this. Others that refuse may actually be prejudiced, but the simple act of not finding someone attractive as a mate is not an example of prejudice. Unless if you insist on declaring the actual act of finding someone attractive or not attractive a form of prejudice. Which I will grant you, but at that point, you are splitting hairs to an order finer than any one could actually operate under.

Testosterone changes you. The actual goal of a hormone is to trigger organs to regulate physiology and behavior. That is what they do. I can change any idea you might have about you somehow existing as a ghost in the shell, if only you will allow me to insert some chemicals into you.

Of course trans-men are invisible. NCTE estimates that between ¼ and 1% of the population is transsexual. So no doi they are underserved. That is only going to change with time and communication. The latter of which is of course what he is attempting to do. So carry on.

But don't turn off the comments.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby CarrieVS » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:51 am

NotCIAAgent wrote:The comments are still up.

That's weird.

Very weird.


DamianaRaven wrote:It might be that they're leaving the comments up as a form of research as to whether or not they should do away with the privilege of commenting.


Has anyone considered the possibility that Wong et al aren't out to get us and plotting to take down the comment section entirely, absolutely all the time? Maybe they really do only intend to shut down comments when they really feel it's necessary, and maybe they don't feel it's necessary just for bigotry?

Wasn't people doxxing the interviewees part of the justification on the paedophile article? That's something that, especially in that particular situation, really needs to be stopped. Whether shutting the comments was the right way to stop it is a different matter, but the fact remains that the reason they shut it down last time was for more than just nastiness.


(Someone's going to tell me it's been taken down now, aren't they? I can't check because work internet.)
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby Marcuse » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:37 pm

Has anyone considered the possibility that Wong et al aren't out to get us and plotting to take down the comment section entirely, absolutely all the time?


Well, he kind of has actually said that his intention is to get rid of all the comment sections. That's not in dispute. Given his explicitly stated desire to eradicate comment sections, yeah, it is surprising that they're leaving this comment section up.

Edit: I suppose the other thing is, we're speculating about what grounds they're using for their closure of previous comment sections. A lot of people have postulated that it's because of the opinions people hold that don't fit into the worldview Cracked appears to be pushing now. However, this article seems to refute that, because we're seeing a lot of opinions that certainly aren't the official view we're receiving and the comments are still open. The problem here is that this isn't being done with any transparency, so we're struggling to understand what's going on.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby sunglasses » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:52 pm

Tesseracts wrote:I also find the scare mongering in this trans article distasteful. The article does not let you forget that apparently nipples may fall off as a result of mastectomy, something I assume is a very rare side effect since I've never fucking heard of it happening before. It seems like yellow journalism and it's annoying.



I've actually never seen nipples left on after a masectomy.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:53 pm

Jack Road wrote:I'll admit that the percentage of transsexuals with disorders like gender dysphoria is much higher than, say trauma patients with PTSD.


Okay, I am really ignorant on that matter, because I personally believe gender dysphoria is, like, a requirement to be a transsexual and go trough the surgical process. I mean... seems like the definition of "having the wrong sex". Would someone care to explain that to me? Besides that, your comment is gold, Jack.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby sunglasses » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:59 pm

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/gender-dysphoria

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dys ... ction.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/article ... ransgender

Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity.


http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/12/0 ... -disorder/

Until now, the term “gender identity disorder” has been used to diagnose people who are transgender. For conservatives, this has provided rhetorical carte blanche to describe the entire trans committee as disordered, delusional, and mentally ill. In some cases, this diagnosis has even been used to discriminate against trans people, with claims that they are unfit parents or employees, as examples. On the other hand, insurance companies have been more willing to cover the expenses associated with transition under this language, because treatment for a disorder is considered medically necessary, rather than cosmetic.

The new manual will diagnose transgender people with “Gender Dysphoria,” which communicates the emotional distress that can result from “a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender.” This will allow for affirmative treatment and transition care without the stigma of disorder. Earlier this year, the APA also released new health guidelines for transgender patients, as well as a position statement affirming transgender care and civil rights. Both documents align with a new standard for respecting trans people in the medical community.


I hope this is helpful, CIA
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:09 pm

So, basically, it just got renamed to avoid the stigma of being called a disorder, though it still fits the description of one?
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby Andropov4 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:19 pm

Yes, in much the same way that homosexuality used to be listed as a disorder, and now is not.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby LegionofShrooms » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:24 pm

SilverMaple wrote:Yeesh, it really has devolved over there now. This is one of those topics where I don't understand where the outrage comes from; how are trans people affecting anyone's lives negatively? By simply existing? What's the point of wasting energy actually getting angry over it?

I just want to tell them to go over to the Fox News site to find like-minded people and continue raging over there, that way they won't be giving Cracked more excuses to shut down the comments.

What's the point of getting angry? I don't generally do this as I like speaking my own ideas in my own words when it comes to these matters, but in this case I'll defer to someone that put it more eloquently than I:
Spoiler: show
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AboveGL: I'm no expert on the subject I'll freely admit, but if I understand what you're saying correctly-that you like switching between the two genders as the mood suits you-it sounds more like you may be gender fluid rather than transgender. If someone's trying to push you into being full time when you're not comfortable with it, well, fuck 'em. It's about your happiness, not theirs.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:32 pm

Andropov4 wrote:Yes, in much the same way that homosexuality used to be listed as a disorder, and now is not.


Well... when you put it in that way... I guess it makes sense now.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby Marcuse » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:38 pm

Andropov4 wrote:Yes, in much the same way that homosexuality used to be listed as a disorder, and now is not.


I've been pondering this, and I've actually been questioning why we associate transgender people with homosexual people so much. Sure the LGBT thing is a strong association, but you don't need to be the slightest bit homosexual to be transgender. Nor do you need to be transgender to be homosexual. There doesn't seem to be a common link there that binds those two very different experiences together.

Homosexuality is a sexual preference, that research suggests is hardwired into people from birth. By contrast, being transgender seems to be a kind of understanding that ones body is the "wrong" gender. The two things are radically different, because one involves who you prefer sleeping with, and the other says that one's body does not match one's psychology. I can't reconcile homosexuality as a disorder in the context of the research that suggests it's hardwired, in the same way I can reconcile the concept that someone who feels they have been born in the wrong body has a disorder.

The problem of course, with labelling transgender as a disorder is that it attracts stigma as a disease, instead of an experience. It's hard to define because it's easy to misinterpret the label in a way that is harmful to the people it's applied to (as Sunny ably mentioned).
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby NotCIAAgent » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:45 pm

Maybe it is due the conception of all transgenders being gay one way or another (he is a woman now and sleeps with men? He was man, therefore, he is gay. He sleeps with woman? His new gender is female, therefore, he is gay) because it is so easy to label them like that for... reasons. Guess it is something to do with expectations.

Anyways, I really think they should get out of LGBTQA+ or whatever it is called by now and do their won thing just for transgender people. By the day, it is becoming more and more incapable (to not say inadequate) to protect the interests of anything past the G, and the ideological hijacking it got doesn't help either.
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby LegionofShrooms » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:23 pm

CarrieVS wrote:Has anyone considered the possibility that Wong et al aren't out to get us and plotting to take down the comment section entirely, absolutely all the the time?


So... You're saying we might have been Wong about him?

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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby Andropov4 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:31 pm

I think the connection between transgendered and LGB is less that they have the same interior experience and more that the exterior experience is similar. What I mean is, they tend to face similar opposition, frequently from the same people (religious right), and often on similar grounds ("God disapproves of gays", "you shouldn't be trying to change the way God made you", "you're just doing it for the attention"). A common opposition seems to me to be what holds that group together, not necessarily a common goal or feeling. Also, the cynic in me can't help but note that LGB groups adding trans people just helps them put greater numbers behind their cause, whilst the extremely low percentage of people who are trans means that the direction of the group doesn't have to change since trans people will have difficulty having much of a voice in such a group. Basically, the trans people can't go it alone because they're too few in number to get much done, and LGB groups don't need to do much to accommodate them and add a few voices, so why not?
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Re: 6 Awful Lessons I Learned Transitioning from Female to M

Postby sunglasses » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:47 pm

NotCIAAgent wrote:Maybe it is due the conception of all transgenders being gay one way or another (he is a woman now and sleeps with men? He was man, therefore, he is gay. He sleeps with woman? His new gender is female, therefore, he is gay) because it is so easy to label them like that for... reasons. Guess it is something to do with expectations.


Except that that isn't always true. There are female transexuals who remain attracted to women, just as one point.

And gender is very hard for people to understand to begin with as a larger part of it is cultural. By American cultural standings, I would be considered masculine at times with my behaviors. I have, in fact, dressed very masculine before and had been confused for male (ah, baggy clothes). It wasn't until I got more comfortable with my body that I begin dressing in what is considered more feminine garb. But I don't feel like I'm in the wrong body-I can only imagine how that must feel and I doubt very much its pleasant.
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