4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

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4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby OgreMECH » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:27 pm

OgreMECH Posted: Apr 14 2013, 08:01 AM

I can't believe this article hasn't been talked about yet as it appears to be one of those divisive ones that makes the comment section lose its shit.

So what do you think? Are rape jokes ever funny? Is Tosh.O ever funny? Do you think we shouldn't have to rescue people who do silly adventures? Should they should at least pay for their rescue?

I liked the article but disagreed with ATB on some points. Tosh was a douche not for making a rape joke but for making a joke about an individual getting gang raped by 5 guys. As for the adventure people I don't think it's any different from, say, society paying for people who overeat, smoke, drink, or have other bad habits. The safety net should work for all.

Still, funny insightful article.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby NisiOptimum » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:29 pm

NisiOptimum Posted: Apr 14 2013, 10:08 AM

*Glances around furtively* To be honest I disliked it. I suppose, rationally, I can see that he's making some good points but I thought it came off a little mean-spirited. And I've never understood this idea that being onstage at a comedy club somehow means nothing you say matters. I mean if tosh had been walking down the street and said that, even as a joke, it would make him a terrible person right? So just because he has a microphone that changes?
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Overlord Moo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:30 pm

Overlord Moo Posted: Apr 14 2013, 10:33 AM

Yeah, this one did come across as kind of mean-spirited. The only one I agreed with was the plastic surgeon one because, well, what did they expect from a back alley surgeon.

As for the rape jokes, I guess they *could* be funny, but you'd have to work really, REALLY hard to a) make a horrifying event funny in the first place and b) not to come across as an insensitive dick while doing it. The Tosh example wasn't the best. Of all the possible ways you could respond, he choses to say that it'd be funny if she were raped? That's not even a joke; there's nothing even resembling a punchline.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Dottoe » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:31 pm

Dottoe Posted: Apr 14 2013, 01:17 PM

Daniel Tosh can be funny. I remember a joke about swimming pools leaving a ring on the lawn, then a follow up on how that one wasn't for people who didn't have lawns. Something about the combination was hilarious. His South Park "Look how edgy I am, Mom!" humor is just annoying. Case in point, "Wouldn't it be funny if she was raped by like, five guys," isn't even a joke. It's just terrible. Just because a professional comic said it in a comedy club, that doesn't make it a joke.

Can rape jokes be funny? Maybe it depends on the person, but I'm going to say that, yeah, there are topics you shouldn't joke about in a comedy club, and rape is one of those. Two young women have just either attempted or succeeded at killing themselves because someone recorded their rape, and put it online.

ATB is a stand-up comic himself, so maybe that's where he's coming from, but I believe he's wrong. It's not like that woman bought tickets to see Tosh live (not that it would make it any more okay). He could have chosen a much better example to make his point. The other three, I can nod politely, even if I do disagree with some of them, but #2...

Hang on a second, was he trying to offend people with #2? Is this meta?
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Bolognas » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:32 pm

Bolognas Posted: Apr 14 2013, 05:21 PM

I agree with him that we should not feel bad for people who are offended in comedy clubs. The woman shouted out during Tosh's set, and then predictably became the target of an offensive joke. Adam Scott Brown doesn't argue in his article that rape jokes are funny or anything.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Cordslash » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:32 pm

CmdrVimes Posted: Apr 14 2013, 05:31 PM

Fully agree with above sentiments. #2 was worked in simply because ATB is trying to become a stand-up comic. While I wish him well with that he's ssing everything from the comic's point of view, not the audience's.

Thing is that a great many people, including myself, don't think that rape (yes I know it was just an example) is ever funny.

That being said the woman didn't need to shout it to someone who never mentioned rape in his skit.

The other points I kind of agree with though.

Not a week goes by in my country when some idiot tourist gets too close to animals and gets mauled/gored/stomped on simply because they wanted a better picture.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby blehblah » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:33 pm

blehblah Posted: Apr 14 2013, 05:33 PM

I think meta is people in the comments trying to push the line, roughly, 'ATB wrote this article to create horrible comments so that Wong can kill the comments'.

People with agendas break a social contract to jump on comedians who tell offensive jokes (funny or not). The joke is then used as evidence to support an opinion that the comedian dared imply disagreement with (i.e., he's a racist/bigot/picks his nose/whatever/doesn't share my values) and therefore should be used to tar and feather the comedian (heckle, tweet, blog, riot, but never just ignore) and by extension, anyone who doesn't adhere to the opinion. So, it's not just a joke, it's evidence that that supports the agenda of the person hearing the joke. It's about the audience, not the joke, and not the comedian.

The parallel is that there are commenters who have decided that ATB supports the removal of the comments section because ATB wrote an article to deliberately induce extreme reactions in the heckler, sorry, comments section. So, ATB wasn't just saying that it's dumb to heckle a comedian for telling an offensive joke, he was providing evidence that he's out to destroy the comments section. Once again, it's about the audience, not the joke, and not the comedian who wrote the joke.

My opinion is that if ATB is a social magician of this magnitude, he's going to be running my campaign for Master of the Universe and Wunderbar in chief right after he manipulates the masses into holding such an election.

Sorry if it's a bit convoluted, and I hope it makes some sense. I just popped out of the comments to the article while shaking my head in wonder (not good wonder, if you're wondering).

I'll shaddup now... ;-)
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Tesseracts » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:33 pm

CmdrVimes Posted: Apr 14 2013, 05:44 PM

@blehblah: are you freaking kidding me? People actually said that in the comments?
This is just absurd. ATB would never do that. These are just his experiences/outlook since he started becoming a standup himself.

And what's with the new "Wong is Darth Vader" thing?

If he want's to get rid of the comment section, he can. He doesn't need Machiavellian methods to do so.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Dottoe » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:34 pm

Dottoe Posted: Apr 14 2013, 05:54 PM

Really? Adam Tod "But if you read the comments section of Cracked's daily articles, (and you should because they're often every bit as hilarious as the articles themselves)..." Brown is trying to get the comments removed?
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Tesseracts » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:34 pm

blehblah Posted: Apr 14 2013, 05:56 PM

@CmdrVimes

Exactly. The face-palm is that it's exactly parallel to what ATB observed about heckling in a comedy club. It's people projecting their agenda (in this case, a conspiracy) onto a situation that is simple - some dude doing what he can to entertain people.

Your observation that some folks have gone all "Wong is Darth Vader" is, I'm afraid, true. It's all a bit space balls, but what can you do? The worst part is that there is nothing that anyone at Cracked can do to calm the masses other than being patient. It'll cool down in time once the folks trying to fan the flames get bored (and hopefully they have the stereotypical short attention span of rabble-rousers).
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Kate » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:26 pm

I felt bad for agreeing with him that people who choose to do dangerous things should foot the bill for rescue, I always get annoyed when people do things needlessly and then people in whole other countries are paying for it. I don't like the implication that they shouldn't be rescued, but I think a one-time flat "risk" tax or something wouldn't be too off-base. Think about the idiots who go kayaking during hurricanes specifically because there's a hurricane; they put the lives of rescuers at risk for no good reason other than a laugh and the ability to say they kayaked during Hurricane Sandy.

The social safety net might cover some costs for me if I overeat or smoke, but those things aren't endangering other people (as long as the smoking is regulated in a way that exposure to secondhand smoke is made as minimal as possible). I don't consider people who choose to go into danger victims in the same way that I consider someone who was hurt by other people to be a victim.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby rickmcslick » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:05 pm

I think this forum was created specifically to provide a release valve for the whole "DW is Darth Vader" thing; it's not really a big deal here but if it helps keep things from becoming a big deal over there then so be it.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby RA2 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:34 am

Yeah, he did stumble a bit by mixing in the "offended" entry with three much more legitimate ones. It seemed out of place compared to discussions of life-threatening situations, and let's be honest, there are some topics that everyone knows is going to start a wildfire in the comments section.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby QuincyMorris » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:03 pm

Tosh is not funny. That is all.
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Re: 4 "Victims" We Need to Stop Feeling Sorry For

Postby Typical Michael » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:08 pm

QuincyMorris wrote:Tosh is not funny. That is all.


At one time, when I was young and stupid, I thought he was. At that time, there was a rumour that I had also been guilty of laughing at Dane Cook.

I can neither confirm nor deny these allegations.

Either way, I am better now.
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