Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby DamianaRaven » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:58 am

You got this web address wrong, though. It's dot-ORG, not dot-com!
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby DoglovingJim » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:02 am

DamianaRaven wrote:You got this web address wrong, though. It's dot-ORG, not dot-com!

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We have to edit ittttttt
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby Nikkict » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:43 am

Damiana: I just read in the cracked forums that commenters make up less than 10% of their readership. Kalli apparently thinks we are more trouble than we are worth.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby DamianaRaven » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:55 am

If that's true, then they'll have nothing to worry about!
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby Fun With Mr. Fudge » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:23 am

DamianaRaven wrote:Because they know they'd lose about 25% of their readership right off the bat... and even more in terms of repeat traffic. They need the comments to supplement their site and instead of appreciating those who provide them with FREE FUCKING CONTENT to entertain their readers, they jealously resent the attention and accolades enjoyed by top commentators.


Not to rehash an old debate about comments, but have to respectfully disagree with most of this, and I think that disagreement warrants some explanation. But first, where did the 25% figure come from? Also, there are sites that don't even have comments sections but which still do fine (I don't see that as a good or bad thing, and whether the sites would do even better with a comments section is a different matter).

Now, I personally don't have a problem with commenters on the whole, but I've written for Cracked and seen the darker side of commenting on the site. A lot of people probably never see the ugly things that get deleted (there's a hidden section of the site where sometimes these get shown), posts where people have revealed the home addresses or personal contact info of writers they don't like (on more than one occasion) or said truly horrible things to other commenters (e.g. encouraging suicide). I believe sometime in the past I even posted here about a fake J.F. Sargent account that someone was using to harass self-identified rape survivors. I actually saw the fake Sarge doing this and was one of the people who brought it to Cracked's attention. Then there are the blatant lies that some people tell about certain claims in articles - not disagreements or errors pointed out, but completely made-up "facts."

Of course, that is a tiny minority of commenters, but I believe that's partly what makes it salient to a higher-up. And when it happens over the course of countless articles, all the good stuff probably starts to seem like white noise while the tiny fleck of bad sticks out as the predominant element. Now, I personally don't think that means Cracked should eliminate its comments section altogether (I'm here, aren't I?), though I'm also fine with a site not having one in general. When I wrote for Cracked, I enjoyed most of the comments on my articles, even though some vexed me (especially when I was new to writing online and exploring comments sections). To make it extra clear, I think some comments are insightful and/or hilarious, but I seriously doubt Cracked's management fears that articles are being outshined by people commenting on them. Whether it's based on ego or actuality, I suspect that the staff is confident enough in its talent and appreciative enough of the effort that goes into writing and (sometimes heavily) editing a Cracked article to not worry too much that they're being upstaged by people who have not put nearly that same effort into a comment.

I don't meant any of the above as a jab. But I think it's important to remember that the people on the other side aren't just a band of butthurt villains looking to suppress an imaginary evil to protect overly fragile egos. You guys are awesome apples, but there have also been some pretty awful ones that I believe, rightly or wrongly, spoiled the bunch for a bunch of Cracked's employees.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby LegionofShrooms » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:10 pm

I can entirely understand your perspective Fudge. There are elements to the comment section that are, overall, cancerous, and I can certainly see how that would sour someone's experience. I've witnessed my fair share of them, and as someone that's moderated sites with less than reputable individuals as part of the clientele, have faced similar issues.

I personally don't think Cracked is jealous of the comment section. I think unless somebody stirs up trouble we're barely a blip on their radar.

That said, I do know that Jason Pargin has explicitly and specifically voiced his contempt for them in general. I also feel as though the whole thumbs issue rather pointedly seeming to single out the commenting community-which as you say, only make up a small fraction of the readership, thus making it rather odd to even try to use it as an incentive in the first-a little off.

Were these my only issues with Cracked, I'd likely let it slide. But that's the thing. This isn't the main focal point, but merely the catalyst which is setting off debate over some problems with Cracked that have been brewing for some time now and appear to be coming to a head.

Quite simply put, Cracked used to be one of the funniest, most enjoyable sites on the web for me. But over the last few years, it has experienced a steady, downward trend. The number of interesting, humorous articles about history or science or popular culture, crazy facts I never knew and badass stories I'd never heard about, were slowly replaced with political agendas being crammed down my throat, faulty, mean spirited rants and messages that simply put were neither funny nor interesting, and increasingly shoddy research and editing work. Clickbait became more popular as a means of drawing people in, sometimes stooping to straight up deception and lies in their advertising of articles. Adds became more intrusive, and site stability became less reliable. A lot of the padding that wasn't about those aforementioned topics was bitching about Marvel or D.C. or why such and such sucks. It got old, it got tiresome and I stopped caring personally.

Sure, there was still good stuff during that time. Robert Evans had a great series of articles delving into people's personal stories and real issues, there were still the odd great article and some of the video series were still funny. But as time went on, those too seemed to become sparser, with the enjoyable articles being fewer and further between.

I used to read every Cracked article, every day. Now I often only read one, or sometimes none. Something that was once an integral part of my routine has now become a site I might go weeks without visiting.

None of this is helped by ther fact that the community within Cracked's staff and forums soured. In my experience with it anyways, PWoT is extremely unwelcoming to newcomers. Any views that go against the grain of what is widely accepted by the staff on a political or social level results in harassment and bans. Jason will straight up delete comments of his own wrongdoing and pettiness and act like they never existed, while enshrining those of others. Even some of the writers I've talked with have been poorly treated. Just ask our own OrangeEyebrows, for one. I seem to even recall seeing on one occasion a staff member using the very tactics they decry-publicly posting and mocking a member's personal social media feed (I will need to verify this before I can say with certainty, as I am by no means certain and memory is a fickle creature. In the event I am wrong, I will offer a full retraction of that statement.)

Simply put, I've found rational, calmed and reasoned responses met with hostility by those that are supposed to handle themselves professionally because they don't conform to their perfect view of how things should be. Cracked first taught me what an echo chamber was. Now they've become the very picture of one in my eyes. Their clumsy attempts at damage control with the videos about why they title things the way they do and Wong's condescending strawman article about the things everyone hates about Cracked certainly did nothing to help that image.

Add to that the fact that they seem to slowly be moving towards a paywall model, which is their right, but simply put, it has reached the point that their content as it currently stands is not something I can see myself being willing to pay for. Cracked just... Isnt that entertaining to me anymore.

To sum things up, I have no doubts that many of their grievances with the user base are valid. I've seen the damage some of Cracked's readers can do, and I've enough shit on the internet to know how many people on it out there are lurking that like to delight in the misery of others. But that does not mean many of our grievances are not valid too.
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Last edited by LegionofShrooms on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:53 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby Marcuse » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:25 pm

Fudge wrote:Now, I personally don't have a problem with commenters on the whole, but I've written for Cracked and seen the darker side of commenting on the site.


This would wash better if the moderation on comments wasn't so patchy and inconsistent. In my experience, comments that did reveal people's real address, or Stormfront brigade trolling, or outright sexist abuse, were left up for all to see for a long long time, while comments which were nothing but critical of the site in general were nigh immediately deleted. I've never had any faith in the moderation on comments for Cracked, and there's a reason why many regular commenters used to use their downvotes in an attempt to bury the most offensive comments and strongly recommend people sort by thumbs to only see the decent stuff. Every house has a toilet, and if you go fishing in the toilet you're gonna find some shit. It doesn't mean that the people in it are smearing it all on the walls.

Shrooms wrote:I personally don't think Cracked is jealous of the comment section.


I don't think they are either. I think we're seen as a necessary evil that's kept around because it helps to bring in the revenue. Somewhere some spreadsheet says that the site with comments brings in more money than the site without comments. So they can't get rid of us because of financial pressure from above. The subscription package attempting to monetise thumbs is more evidence of that. We're a resource and while we're openly despised by the upper management of the site, we're also too valuable to get rid of, so we're marked for aggressive exploitation to eke the most money out of us before we leave. I think it's that cynical attempt to grab as much cash as possible that's galling, the full knowledge that it will definitely drive regular commenters away and not caring because, like the logic of keeping the comment sections open, financial pressure from above dictates their actions.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:00 pm

Marcuse wrote:
Fudge wrote:Now, I personally don't have a problem with commenters on the whole, but I've written for Cracked and seen the darker side of commenting on the site.


This would wash better if the moderation on comments wasn't so patchy and inconsistent. In my experience, comments that did reveal people's real address, or Stormfront brigade trolling, or outright sexist abuse, were left up for all to see for a long long time, while comments which were nothing but critical of the site in general were nigh immediately deleted.


This. I posted some not-always-advisable horseshit when I was a young'un on Cracked, and often got rightfully downvoted to oblivion, but those comments remained in their place for years and are probably still there today. The only comment I verifiably had deleted was one I made shortly before I stopped visiting the site, observing the fact that a top-voted comment pointing out a few glaring inaccuracies and hypocrisies in the article had "mysteriously vanished" -- not even directly calling anyone out, just poking at the subject a bit. I checked back in about half an hour later and it was gone. Cracked moderators are there for ego protection, nothing more.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby Fun With Mr. Fudge » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:48 pm

LegionofShrooms wrote:To sum things up, I have no doubts that many of their grievances with the user base are not valid. I've seen the damage some of Cracked's readers can do, and I've enough shit on the internet to know how many people on it out there are lurking that like to delight in the misery of others. But that does not mean many of our grievances are not valid too.


That's fair, and I certainly don't want to dismiss your or anyone else's feelings about the quality of the work done there. That's always a subjective thing, and the more people who agree/disagree, the more those perceptions will have objectively measurable impacts on the site. I don't think it's appropriate for me personally to weigh in on the quality issue specifically, given that my name is on something like 30 articles there. It would feel hypocrtical of me to be overtly critical on that front and self-serving to go in the other direction.

However, I will admit that I had some - let's say - qualms about how articles were sometimes edited/opinions that got added to/removed from the final product. In the end that led me to adjust what kinds of articles I tried to write there (I even retracted some pitches) and ultimately disuaded me from wrting there more generally. I typically like having more expressive freedom or at the very least want to know that I'm not going to disagree with "my" own article in terms of opinions or the delivery of said opinions. But at least for me, that doesn't speak to Cracked's quality but my personal needs/quirks as a sort of/kind of/maybe writer. In most work environments you don't get to just express whatever you want however you want to. And as many have pointed out, certain topics/opinions seem to get more views. If those also happen to align with what an editor thinks and how they want to say it, I personally don't fault them for that. I just want/need something a bit different.

That said, I at least get where you're coming from from a different angle, even if I don't share all of the same feelings or specific stances.

Marcuse wrote: Every house has a toilet, and if you go fishing in the toilet you're gonna find some shit. It doesn't mean that the people in it are smearing it all on the walls.
.

I'm kind of in love with that statement, not in a poop fetishist sort of way, but there's a feeling of excitement nonetheless. But I digress. I see your point about certain comments not getting deleted, but I also think it's slightly different from the question of how those undeleted/deleted comments affect the opinions of a David Wong.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby IamNotCreepy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:19 pm

Fun With Mr. Fudge wrote:
Marcuse wrote: Every house has a toilet, and if you go fishing in the toilet you're gonna find some shit. It doesn't mean that the people in it are smearing it all on the walls.
.

I'm kind of in love with that statement, not in a poop fetishist sort of way, but there's a feeling of excrement nonetheless.


There, fixed that for you.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby DamianaRaven » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Fun With Mr. Fudge wrote:But first, where did the 25% figure come from?


Pulled it right out of my ass! I'm just speculating because, as much as the Cracked staff seems to disdain their comment section, there MUST be some reason that they keep it up. The only rational possibility is that they must think they'd lose an unacceptable percentage of their readership.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby LegionofShrooms » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:43 am

Fun With Mr. Fudge wrote:
LegionofShrooms wrote:To sum things up, I have no doubts that many of their grievances with the user base are not valid. I've seen the damage some of Cracked's readers can do, and I've enough shit on the internet to know how many people on it out there are lurking that like to delight in the misery of others. But that does not mean many of our grievances are not valid too.


That's fair, and I certainly don't want to dismiss your or anyone else's feelings about the quality of the work done there. That's always a subjective thing, and the more people who agree/disagree, the more those perceptions will have objectively measurable impacts on the site. I don't think it's appropriate for me personally to weigh in on the quality issue specifically, given that my name is on something like 30 articles there. It would feel hypocrtical of me to be overtly critical on that front and self-serving to go in the other direction.
.

Don't get me wrong-there have been and still continue to be articles during my period of dissatisfaction and continuing through today that I have genuinely enjoyed. The Goofy article, for example, was one that I connected with as a parent and thought it offered another, different, but equally plausible layer to a character I love.

That said, I have found such articles to be sparser personally these days, and I know my feelings on the matter aren't solitary. There are still a handful of artists I enjoy on that site, but I just find it getting washed out by a lot of mediocre pandering to what's trendy and political ramrodding. I'll admit that's a largely subjective assessment, but I get a feeling from the other feedback I've seen that it's one shared by a not insignificant number of the readers on Cracked.

EDIT: I should note that I misspoke in the quoted section of my previous post. It should read "I have no doubt that many of their grievances with the user base are valid". Double negatives are the bane of my existence.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby sunglasses » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:46 am

They keep up the comments because of their parent company. Literally no other reason.
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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby iMURDAu » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:41 pm

sunglasses wrote:They keep up the comments because of their parent company. Literally no other reason.


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Re: Cracked now requires a subscription to vote on comments

Postby Yoss » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:23 pm

Fun With Mr. Fudge wrote:To make it extra clear, I think some comments are insightful and/or hilarious, but I seriously doubt Cracked's management fears that articles are being outshined by people commenting on them. Whether it's based on ego or actuality, I suspect that the staff is confident enough in its talent and appreciative enough of the effort that goes into writing and (sometimes heavily) editing a Cracked article to not worry too much that they're being upstaged by people who have not put nearly that same effort into a comment.


I largely agree with your original post, but based on something I read in their forums that's not so clearly the case. I wish I could find it, but I'm either searching the wrong things or that thread got put down the memory hole. There is definitely resentment at what they see as coattail riding. They don't like providing a built in audience for commenters to swoop in and get attention.
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