Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

What's happening in your world? Discuss it here.
Forum rules
Play nice. We will be watching

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Blackfish » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:25 am

This is all speculation, of course, but you're forgetting that we may not have a choice when we do decide to send out those ships.

aviel wrote:For hibernation, you'd need to find people willing to go to sleep and then wake up when everyone they know is dead.

I know, my question is, why is it so incredibly far fetched that some people might be willing to make that sacrifice? I love my family, but if I was given a chance to be on this hypothetical one-way voyage, I'd give it some serious thought.
  • 1

In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
User avatar
Blackfish
Dr. Jan Itor
Dr. Jan Itor
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:51 am
Location: no longer finding a tree to piss on
Show rep
Title: Holy Mop Master Race

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Learned Nand » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:37 am

I'd give it one serious thought and that serious thought would be "No, seriously." The only people I can think of who might be willing to do that are people whose alternative is death or starvation or something because they live in a wartorn or incredibly impoverished area, and they probably wouldn't qualify.
  • 0

Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
User avatar
Learned Nand
Back-End Admin
Back-End Admin
 
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:18 pm
Location: Permanently in the wrong
Show rep
Title: Auditor of Reality

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Marcuse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:04 pm

So what does everyone think about the possibility of unmanned exploration of the galaxy? Obviously we send probes and rovers into space now, but how much more will we continue to use this as a tool in space exploration. Why would we ever bother building an Enterprise if we could send an advanced Ai out to do the same job?

Given that machines can be designed to be suited for the rigours of space, is it too much risk to send humans out into space? Could the colonization of planets be started by machines decades or centuries before humans ever set foot there?
  • 4

User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby ButtChocolate » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:09 pm

Marcuse wrote:Why would we ever bother building an Enterprise if we could send an advanced Ai out to do the same job?


I think in part because we haven't (yet) developed AI that can think with the full depth of imagination and ingenuity, and yes- even irrationality- that humans do, which is sometimes needed for problem solving. We make abstract connections and spurious associations that sometimes mistakenly derails us from one solution path and sends us careening onto another that we weren't even considering, but we are better (for now) at adapting those discoveries to different problems. We've got gut instinct that somehow drives us to fail until we succeed.

Sci-Fi always depicts this aspect of our humanity getting us in trouble; sticking our faces into things we probably shouldn't stick them into or poking at things that probably shouldn't be poked-

Kirk.jpg
Kirk.jpg (39.34 KiB) Viewed 6800 times

"I've contracted WHAT?!?



but as much as it runs us into trouble- we keep doing that because for now we are better at the "What If?" game than our current AI. Even if those what if scenarios do indeed lead us into jeopardy sometimes...

Watson.jpg
Watson.jpg (64.63 KiB) Viewed 6800 times

You're not helping advance either yours OR my points here, Ken.



I think certainly an advanced AI would arguably do a more efficient data collection and observation oriented job than us at exploring the universe and all of its mysteries- but remember, in order to do that, someone needs to program it with all the appropriate questions for what it should be looking for- and we're not even sure we know what all of them are yet.

Spoiler: show
42
Yes, this is a reference to that famous novel... Jackie Robinson In Space.



And even if we made an AI so advanced that it could think abstractly and was haphazard enough to go poking it's face where it shouldn't- we'd probably STILL build our own starships and stage our own explorations... because seriously, what are the odds we're going to let THIS guy represent?

C3PO.jpg
C3PO.jpg (69.01 KiB) Viewed 6800 times

"Never tell me the odds."
  • 10

"Comb" ~ Typical Michael
User avatar
ButtChocolate
TCS Camper
TCS Camper
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:25 pm
Location: Location: Location:, it's all about Location.
Show rep
Title: Sausage King of Chicago

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Ganymede314 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Marcuse wrote:So what does everyone think about the possibility of unmanned exploration of the galaxy? Obviously we send probes and rovers into space now, but how much more will we continue to use this as a tool in space exploration. Why would we ever bother building an Enterprise if we could send an advanced Ai out to do the same job?

Given that machines can be designed to be suited for the rigours of space, is it too much risk to send humans out into space? Could the colonization of planets be started by machines decades or centuries before humans ever set foot there?


Yeah, Marcuse. The way it's looking now, the most research is being put in to AI/robotic space travel. Like you say, it is just sooooo difficult to ensure human safety in space, and there are other practical problems too, such as the huge amount of supplies necessary to keep humans alive over a long period of time in space.

Weight is one of the main concerns when considering any mission, and robots are much more efficient per kg than a human is, and the robots don't need all the extras. We can still receive all the data collected by the mission, without any need for a human presence. It is also arguably easier to control a robotic mission, with pre-set programmes, fail safes, and of course we can still have human input if necessary from ground control. Essentially it is just more practical to send robotic missions, and that is where most of the research is being concentrated, for good reason.

I will hopefully be working with NASA/ESA in the future (that's the plan after my PhD!), and while human missions will certainly still be happening, with the ISS and possibly Mars, but it will be on a much smaller scale than the robotic missions in the works.

Check out the mission lists on the NASA and ESA websites!!
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/
http://sci.esa.int/home/51459-missions/
  • 8

"The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries."
-Carl Sagan
User avatar
Ganymede314
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 459
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:33 pm
Location: Ireland
Show rep
Title: Space Face

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby 52xMax » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:04 pm

what about wormholes, like the ones in Stargate?

I say we start working on those as well, or start digging all over ancient Egypt until we found the original left by the aliens who built the pyramids
(I wonder if I'm the only Stargate fan on the forum)

Seriously, though, I don't know much about astrophysics, but I think those guys were onto something.

Also, Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen bridge would be a kickass name for a prog-rock band.
  • 5

"When in doubt... well, don't ask me!"
User avatar
52xMax
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 3058
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: In all the wrong places.
Show rep
Title: Salmon the Wise

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Ganymede314 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:34 pm

Here's a really interesting page with links to different emerging possibilities for the future of space travel. From new types of propulsion drives, to FTL travel, and wormholes, there's some really interesting stuff there.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/possible.html

52xMax wrote:(I wonder if I'm the only Stargate fan on the forum)


No. you're definitely not the only one, I LOVE me some Stargate. I mean, it has Richard Dean Anderson!!
You can never go wrong with MacGyver. Seriously.
  • 5

"The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries."
-Carl Sagan
User avatar
Ganymede314
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 459
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:33 pm
Location: Ireland
Show rep
Title: Space Face

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Learned Nand » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:48 pm

Well clearly we'd use probes first. Why would we endanger humans if it weren't necessary, or before we'd even gathered the data necessary to keep them safe?
  • 2

Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
User avatar
Learned Nand
Back-End Admin
Back-End Admin
 
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:18 pm
Location: Permanently in the wrong
Show rep
Title: Auditor of Reality

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Eternauta » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:35 pm

Will the Columbus' Egg in this case be enhancement of the human body to near immortality, through genetics, robotics, pharmaceutical means or good old thetan cleansing? What if God was always within every human being and we should embrace our inner patriarchal, vengeful divinity and mock the very fabric of our being and existence? I mean, if we greatly increase our lifespan and develop buttpluglike atomic batteries to power ourselves, a million years' journey will become a feasible task for our scarily advanced superhuman spawn.

They'll keep members of the old specie in captivity, using them as subjects for cruel pointless experiments up in space, until a rebellious human will lead a revolution aboard the Mothership, with the crucial help of a female Neo Human whose love will transcend the racial barrier and who looks sexy but lethal in her sweaty tank top.
  • 4

"Will... penis... cure my... issues?" - JamesT
Eternauta
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:10 pm
Show rep

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby ButtChocolate » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:49 pm

aviel wrote:Well clearly we'd use probes first. Why would we endanger humans if it weren't necessary, or before we'd even gathered the data necessary to keep them safe?


Unfortunately, I just don't trust to think that the people at the decision making level will be always be as intelligent or thoughtful about that idea as you are being, aviel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_disaster

Here's my [sarcasm]favorite[oh so regrettable sarcasm] quote from that link:

Director of Mission Operations John Harpold wrote:You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS. If it has been damaged it's probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don't you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?


Here's hoping that in their final moments, one of the crew still had enough of a sense of humor left in them to turn to a crewmate and tried to ease the tension and offer a little comfort by saying "Fucking managers, amirite?"
  • 2

"Comb" ~ Typical Michael
User avatar
ButtChocolate
TCS Camper
TCS Camper
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:25 pm
Location: Location: Location:, it's all about Location.
Show rep
Title: Sausage King of Chicago

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Learned Nand » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:55 pm

If you really want to be frustrated by NASA incompetence, read Richard Feynman's What do you Care What Other People Think?. He talks about his investigation into to Challenger disaster, which involves both managerial incompetence and basic mathematical errors on the part of the engineers.

That said, this isn't something to worry about. We can't send a human to another star system before we send a probe as a matter of technology. And it's what we've been doing so far: we sent satellites into orbit before sending humans, we sent probes to the moon before sending humans, and we're sending probes to Mars before we're sending humans. Not to mention that our first interstellar probe has arguably already been launched in the 70's.

Eternauta wrote:Will the Columbus' Egg in this case be enhancement of the human body to near immortality, through genetics, robotics, pharmaceutical means or good old thetan cleansing? What if God was always within every human being and we should embrace our inner patriarchal, vengeful divinity and mock the very fabric of our being and existence? I mean, if we greatly increase our lifespan and develop buttpluglike atomic batteries to power ourselves, a million years' journey will become a feasible task for our scarily advanced superhuman spawn.


Even if we invent biological immortality, a million years won't seem like nothing to us. Humans keep time via a regular cycle of chemical pulses in the brain, and so unless you alter that (which many people do recreationally), the passage of time is going to feel the same.
  • 3

Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
User avatar
Learned Nand
Back-End Admin
Back-End Admin
 
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:18 pm
Location: Permanently in the wrong
Show rep
Title: Auditor of Reality

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby D-LOGAN » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:50 am

Maybe we should all, you know ....... stop getting ideas above our station? Just you know, stay where we are, stop being so curious about the universe and things that don't concern you....us!
I say humanity should just learn it's place and stay put, stop all this looking up to space nonsense. Just go about your business, pay your taxes and STOP ASKING QUESTIONS! Then everyone will get along just fine.

*I must inform Base-Command these Carbons may be getting a little too big for their britches*
  • 7

Not just yet, I'm still tender from before.
User avatar
D-LOGAN
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3590
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Éire
Show rep
Title: ALL PRAISE UNTO MIGHTY KEK!

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby Marcuse » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:19 pm



We ALL know the truth D-Logan.
  • 1

User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby DashaBlade » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:20 pm

D-LOGAN wrote:*I must inform Base-Command these Carbons may be getting a little too big for their britches*


I imagine the conversation would look a bit like this.

  • 3

User avatar
DashaBlade
TCS Chomper
TCS Chomper
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:21 am
Location: Waving my hands at passing cars
Show rep
Title: Crazy Cat Lady

Re: Spaaaaaace Exploration and Human Progress

Postby D-LOGAN » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:12 pm

Is that Chris Partlow?
  • 0

Not just yet, I'm still tender from before.
User avatar
D-LOGAN
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3590
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Éire
Show rep
Title: ALL PRAISE UNTO MIGHTY KEK!

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests