Social Justice

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Social Justice

Postby Cujos&Bits » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:12 pm

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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Windy » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:24 pm

Cujos&Bits wrote:The crazy on the other side is Stormfront which is just scary racist, but hearing a lady complain that lack of getting neck tatted is part of sexism is sort of funny to laugh at.


Nah, they're pretty much the same.

http://www.reddit.com/r/StormfrontorSJW/
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby gregfrankenstein » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:31 pm

Lois_Lane wrote:Thanks! I also want to echo what you said. The black face isn't what gets me its the lying. If she wanted to play at being black then more power to her. I don't think it's right but I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me. Rachel crossed the line when she started to make claims about her parents and fake hate crimes. Shit like this sidelines real issues.


I would agree, but that's never what I see social media talking about. All I see is a hashtag shaming campaign because we discovered her secret race, the same bullying we employ toward that girl who made that AIDS tweet or people who listen to Imagine Dragons. And that's what bugs me about this controversy. If it were about the fake hate crimes and such, fine, but instead I get this weird implication that a white ally in a civil rights movement is somehow toxic, and I was under the impression we need those.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby gisambards » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:36 pm

Windy wrote:
Cujos&Bits wrote:The crazy on the other side is Stormfront which is just scary racist, but hearing a lady complain that lack of getting neck tatted is part of sexism is sort of funny to laugh at.


Nah, they're pretty much the same.

http://www.reddit.com/r/StormfrontorSJW/


There are differences. Stormfront is a continuation of a movement that murdered millions of people, who all carry the same ideals that led to that. The neck tat woman is just being silly.
The latter is laughable, because she's not a threat to anyone and most of us know better.
The former is frankly disgusting, and part of a genuinely scary movement: while Stormfront itself is all a bit sad, people with the same ideology are increasingly on the rise in Europe.
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Postby Cujos&Bits » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:50 pm

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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Windy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:32 am

gisambards wrote:There are differences. Stormfront is a continuation of a movement that murdered millions of people, who all carry the same ideals that led to that. The neck tat woman is just being silly.
The latter is laughable, because she's not a threat to anyone and most of us know better.
The former is frankly disgusting, and part of a genuinely scary movement: while Stormfront itself is all a bit sad, people with the same ideology are increasingly on the rise in Europe.


"It's different when we do it".

Yeah, I hear that a lot these days. I'm still not sure how the actions of someone who has nothing to do with you affects how despicable your opinions are. Joking about "gas the kikes" makes you an evil monster, but joking about "KILLALLMEN" just makes you cute and silly?

Here let me try riding the oppression train.

http://www.history.com/topics/armenian-genocide - Armenian genocide
http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/Whi ... de_TVA.pdf - South African hate crimes
http://www.understandingrace.org/histor ... _race.html - Irish stuff

Cujos&Bits wrote: Now what was sort of hilarious is it turns out there's many levels of the spectrum of a storm front racist. On one end you had people who were racist but said "but you can't deny Jimi's talent on the 6 string" like... they were racist but would shake the man's hand because his skill transcended their hatred. Then you had racists who said he was talented, but it was because he was mixed blood and so the talent came from his non black side, and they obviously really get into this blood magic occult hitler shit. Then you had people who said rock music was just degenerate black art so a talented guitarist was an oxymoron because there hasn't been good music since early Austrian classical composers.


They're shitposting. Probably. It's kind of hard to tell with Stormfront because they sound exactly like trolls except they're serious, but blood magic occult Hitler shit sounds like shitposting to me.

Crimson wrote:If transracialism is indeed "proven" to be a thing in the future, then I suppose we'll have to admit we were mistaken and change our views.


Fortunately, not all of us have confidence in the humanities branch of academics.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Crimson847 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:05 am

Windy wrote:Fortunately, not all of us have confidence in the humanities branch of academics.


You don't have to, considering that "proving" transracialism would necessarily involve drawing on neurological, psychological, and biological research.
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Windy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:31 am

Crimson847 wrote:
Windy wrote:Fortunately, not all of us have confidence in the humanities branch of academics.


You don't have to, considering that "proving" transracialism would necessarily involve drawing on neurological, psychological, and biological research.


You could simply redefine a few words and accomplish the same thing.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Crimson847 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:50 am

Windy wrote:You could simply redefine a few words and accomplish the same thing.


What do you mean?
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby gisambards » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:19 am

Windy wrote:
gisambards wrote:There are differences. Stormfront is a continuation of a movement that murdered millions of people, who all carry the same ideals that led to that. The neck tat woman is just being silly.
The latter is laughable, because she's not a threat to anyone and most of us know better.
The former is frankly disgusting, and part of a genuinely scary movement: while Stormfront itself is all a bit sad, people with the same ideology are increasingly on the rise in Europe.


"It's different when we do it".

Yeah, I hear that a lot these days. I'm still not sure how the actions of someone who has nothing to do with you affects how despicable your opinions are. Joking about "gas the kikes" makes you an evil monster, but joking about "KILLALLMEN" just makes you cute and silly?

Here let me try riding the oppression train.

http://www.history.com/topics/armenian-genocide - Armenian genocide
http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/Whi ... de_TVA.pdf - South African hate crimes
http://www.understandingrace.org/histor ... _race.html - Irish stuff


... what?
What are you saying? Are you equating feminists with neo-Nazis? What do you mean, "it's different when we do it"? What do the Armenian genocide, South African hate crimes and the Irish potato famine have to do with anything?
I would like to point out, however, that there is a big difference between joking about #killallmen (which started as satire and was taken on by a misandric fringe group most feminists do not agree with) and joking about an actual genocide which was committed in the name of your ideology.
If you actually support the Holocaust, it's pretty hateful to joke about it. Most of the people joking about #killallmen do not actually advocate mass murder of men. There is a massive difference.
As for the rest of your post - yeah, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say, though I have a feeling I'd rather not know.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:27 am

gisambards wrote:What are you saying? Are you equating feminists with neo-Nazis? What do you mean, "it's different when we do it"? What do the Armenian genocide, South African hate crimes and the Irish potato famine have to do with anything?
I would like to point out, however, that there is a big difference between joking about #killallmen (which started as satire and was taken on by a misandric fringe group most feminists do not agree with) and joking about an actual genocide which was committed in the name of your ideology.
If you actually support the Holocaust, it's pretty hateful to joke about it. Most of the people joking about #killallmen do not actually advocate mass murder of men. There is a massive difference.
As for the rest of your post - yeah, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say, though I have a feeling I'd rather not know.

I don't always agree with Windy, but I am also upset by the "killallmen" bullshit. I would be able to accept it if it seemed like it really was a joke, but it's usually said by people who seem to actually hate men. They may not want to kill men but they seem to have no problem with making men uncomfortable.

I swear, Twitter has the worst sense of humor on the internet. Seriously, what the fuck Twitter? First thing they "killallmen" is funny, next they can't tell someone is joking when she talks about the tragedy of hunting triceratops.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Windy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:02 am

Crimson847 wrote:
Windy wrote:You could simply redefine a few words and accomplish the same thing.


What do you mean?


Ever study psychology before? Definitions and classifications change all the time. Look at the DSM for example. Obvious examples being when the DSM-II had listed homosexuality as a mental disorder, until the 7th printing, which removed it due to pressure from gay activists, and the DSM-V changing "gender identity disorder" into "gender dysphoria". Autism and Aspergers are treated as identical in DSM-V. Children having a lot of temper tantrums is now a mental disorder as of two years ago (Disruptive Mood Dysregulation). Being a rebellious teenager is considered a mental disorder ever since DSM-III (Oppositional Defiant). Exhibiting symptoms of depression after say, losing a loved one wasn't defined as depressive disorder until two years ago.

A large part of what's defined as a mental illness is dependent on what's normal, and most of what we think about psychology is western-centric. Do you think all cultures would define "children having trouble paying attention in school" as a mental disorder? What's the difference between "undisciplined" and "mental disorder"? DSM also makes an exemption for religion, but what's considered a religion in one culture can be considered batshit insane in another. I can guarantee you that whether or not transracialism is classified as a mental illness will depend on if it's considered politically correct by western culture.

There's a reason why psychology is considered a soft science.

gisambards wrote: Are you equating feminists with neo-Nazis?


I can see similarities, with bullying a scientist over his shirt,trying to criminalize making men spread their legs on a bus, DDOS,doxxing children, defending doxxing, vandalism, false fire alarms, sending bomb threats, assaulting men, murdering men, bullying women who disagree with you, harassing women who disagree with you, SWATTING women who disagree with you,lying about your former employer so you can have a wage gap story, lying, about, rape, #KILLALLMEN, the fact that, literally, all, left-leaning, media, endorsesan, extremists. Let, me, know, when, I, reach, the, magic, number, before, they're, no, longer, considered, a, fringe, minority.

I would like to point out, however, that there is a big difference between joking about #killallmen (which started as satire and was taken on by a misandric fringe group most feminists do not agree with) and joking about an actual genocide which was committed in the name of your ideology.


"It's OK when we do it"

Yeah, that's not going to fly with me.

If you actually support the Holocaust, it's pretty hateful to joke about it. Most of the people joking about #killallmen do not actually advocate mass murder of men. There is a massive difference.


"When you do it, you're an insane hateful monster who's a menace to society. When we do it, we're just being silly :)"

Are you sure you're not just giving the benefit of the doubt to people with vaguely similar politics as your own?
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby sunglasses » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:19 pm

Windy wrote:
Crimson847 wrote:
Windy wrote:You could simply redefine a few words and accomplish the same thing.


What do you mean?


Ever study psychology before?

A large part of what's defined as a mental illness is dependent on what's normal


You're really over simplifying things there.
And hopefully, eventually, we'll be able to better utilize PET scans to assist with diagnosis. The reason it seems like so much is changing in regards to psychology is because we're learning so much more. Psychology is a young science, and is still growing.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/un ... e-argument


Are you sure you're not just giving the benefit of the doubt to people with vaguely similar politics as your own?

And this could be viewed as condescending.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby gisambards » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:24 pm



Yes, there are examples of bad things happening in the name of feminism. This is true of every ideology. That does not make feminism comparable to Nazism. Feminism is not comparable to Nazism, at all. If you were half as intelligent as your consistently condescending attitude suggests you think you are, you'd understand why.
I would like to point out, however, that there is a big difference between joking about #killallmen (which started as satire and was taken on by a misandric fringe group most feminists do not agree with) and joking about an actual genocide which was committed in the name of your ideology.


"It's OK when we do it"

Yeah, that's not going to fly with me.

If you actually support the Holocaust, it's pretty hateful to joke about it. Most of the people joking about #killallmen do not actually advocate mass murder of men. There is a massive difference.


"When you do it, you're an insane hateful monster who's a menace to society. When we do it, we're just being silly :)"

Are you sure you're not just giving the benefit of the doubt to people with vaguely similar politics as your own?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Notice how this was an actual thing that happened. 11 million people, murdered. For being the wrong race, for being homosexual, for being disabled. That happened. Neo-nazis think it is good that it happened. That is a central part of being a neo-Nazi. If a neo-Nazi jokes about it, it's sickening because they actually believe it's a good thing.
#killallmen started as a joke. The people originally posting it did not actually believe that all men should die. It was hijacked by women who were taking it seriously, but those women were, as I say, a fringe minority, and the majority of feminists disagreed with it.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two.
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Re: Social Justice Absurdity Thread

Postby Askias » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:29 pm

It's pretty old (9 months is old in internet time), but I think it's worth mentioning.


Mark Zuckerberg not caring about T-shirts is sexist.

Mark Zuckerberg was asked why he Always wears the same grey T-shirts. For those who don't know, Zuckerberg wears grey T-shirts all the time. That's really all there is to it.
Mark Zuckerberg wrote:“I’m in this really lucky position where I get to wake up every day and help serve more than a billion people. And I’d feel I’m not doing my job if I spent any of my energy on things that are silly or frivolous about my life.”


I watched the full video (embedded in the linked article, and it's just 1:16 so if you want the full context, quickly watch it) and it's a tad more wordy than needed, but pretty describt. Also, grey shirts are simple, go with anything, and in sane world could never cause much disarray. It's such a non-statement grey is generally assosiated with imaginationless thinking (or Pixies with imaginationless thinking), but Zuckerberg stated he likes it because he doesn't like worrying over trivialities, and actually feels guilty if he spends time he considers wasted rather than building the best product possible. It's a PR-friendly answer to probably the least politically incorrect shirt choice possible. What could possibly be cause to complai-
Allison P Davis wrote:Is it just me or does the mindset of the Silicon Valley Power-Schlub imply that caring about clothing or how you look invalidates your ability to work? Of course, male CEOs are far too focused on changing the world or building the next Big App to care about something as “silly” or “frivolous” as dressing professionally


Excuse me, I... Have to find some hope in humanity.
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