Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Tesseracts » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:27 am

"You're either lying about your opinion of my joke, or you're stupid" has got to be the king of false dichotomies.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby D-LOGAN » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:09 am

GUYS PLEASE! CAN'T YOU SEE THIS DICK-JOKE BUSINESS IS TEARING OUR RAPE-THREAD APART!!!!!!!
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby DomaDoma » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:29 am

Crimson847 wrote:Now, here's the thing: you constantly rail against this sort of insulting ad hominem. I find this annoying in some cases when I get the sense you're digging your heels in and closing your ears (as with Trump), but overall I respect having such scruples and sticking to them, and you appear to have a very consistent take on this matter.

When you jump from that pattern of behavior to supporting the argument that aviel is acting in bad faith because he won't concede an argument to you without what he deems sufficient evidence, it displays a glaring inconsistency.


I think you must have me confused with someone else. My only argument with Aviel in this thread was his tactics, being employed on another member. (Aviel will never deem your evidence sufficient for meaningful discussion; you'll be stuck verifying your basic premise until you are fatigued into submission.)

Also, and here's the main thing that makes me sure you're confused: I despise Trump.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:35 am

EDIT: Never mind, misread a previous post.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:56 am

DomaDoma wrote:I think you must have me confused with someone else. My only argument with Aviel in this thread was his tactics, being employed on another member. (Aviel will never deem your evidence sufficient for meaningful discussion; you'll be stuck verifying your basic premise until you are fatigued into submission.)

Also, and here's the main thing that makes me sure you're confused: I despise Trump.


The remark to Logan about Trump was a reference to a different discussion that he and I participated in a bit ago. It had nothing to do with you. I've already seen your post declaring that you'd rather see Hillary in office than Trump, and I was not under the impression that this was out of any particular fondness for Hillary or the DNC.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:49 am

Tesseracts wrote:"You're either lying about your opinion of my joke, or you're stupid" has got to be the king of false dichotomies.


Do you think that Matt knew I was talking about him, or do you think he wasn't clever enough to know that I wasn't?
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:55 am

I don't think a person has to be dumb to misunderstand someone else, especially online.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:01 am

Sometimes the only payoff for having any faith is when it's tested again and again every day.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby sunglasses » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:26 pm

Lets get back to the discussion on hand and actual thread topic, eh? Marc, several posts back you made a good point, only u.s. Statistics are being argued. Does anyone have links or stats from other countries?

Also, the penetration thing: While that is still a statute in some states, the FBI has recommend dropping that language because it excludes rape of men by females.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby sunglasses » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:16 pm

So, this happened.

Dey, 22 years old, admitted he had sex with the woman's 12-year-old daughter on multiple occasions.

Dey said he believed that he and the victim were in a consenting sexual relationship, though the age of consent in Montana is actually 16.

But even after he admitted to the crime, hundreds of people continued to show support for Dey, starting up Facebook pages and petitions to clear his name.

A petition circling on the internet requested support for Dey and garnered more than 100 supporters by the time of his sentencing.

The victim's mother says she is devastated by the lenient sentence and appalled that her daughter is being accused of seducing Dey.

“People are going online, calling her a lying whore,” said the victim’s mother. “We’ve received death threats.”

Wyatt Glade, the Custer County attorney, said the case was “bad for everyone.”

Glade called the case difficult and said, though he recognizes the victim’s mother was not pleased by the plea agreement, Dey did not have a criminal record and had a learning disability.

“(Psychiatric professionals) testified that Dey was a lower-functioning individual,” said Glade. “The judge received a psychological report that said Dey had cognitive limitations.” Glade said despite his limitations, Dey was able to complete high school.

“A 10-year sentence is not light,” said Glade.


The guy took a plea deal. 10 years on a plea deal for stat rape is hard to get, honestly. They oft plead down a lot lower. That being said 12=/= 16. A 12 year old really isn't thinking thru her actions. I know I didn't at that age. I get he has a learning disability, but c'mon dude. She was 12.

But what really irks me is that the vic is being called a lying whore. The guy admitted to the sex! How is she a lying whore?!
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Kate » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:10 pm

Eesh. That's tough. First off, it's appalling and thoroughly unsurprising that she's being called a lying whore who seduced him even though she's only 12 and those are outrageously ridiculous thing to say. Because people suck. It still makes me sick to my stomach. I can understand people feeling confused about how to handle a case like this, I can't really understand coming to the conclusion that the little girl is to blame.

Second...you can complete highschool without really being cognitively able to understand that a 12 year old cannot give consent. He might well be unable to understand what he did wrong, though I don't know if that's the conclusion the psychiatrists involved came to. It was decided he is likely to re-offend.

Third...here's the part that really just floors me. "According to court records, Dey’s parents were aware of his relationship with the girl and advised him to end the relationship. Dey’s family, though, did not alert authorities." Um. Why are they not in jail with him? If he is so low-functioning, is he in their care? Are they not liable for knowing their son was doing this terrible thing to a little girl and keeping quiet about it? How are they not accessories to statutory rape?
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:14 pm

sunglasses wrote:But what really irks me is that the vic is being called a lying whore. The guy admitted to the sex! How is she a lying whore?!

Because every rape is actually a lie, have you not seen reddit lately?
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Tesseracts » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:38 pm

I've been following some drama between comedians/internet personalities Maddox and Dick Masterson. They were the co-hosts of the podcast The Biggest Problem in the Universe, and used to be friends with each other. The podcast was cancelled on bad terms about 3 months ago. Dick began his own podcast where he mostly discussed his opinions, but also bitched about Maddox relentlessly in nearly every episode. Maddox also created a new podcast, but remained silent on the cancellation of the previous podcast until he created this post.



The part of the video which is relevant to the rape discussion is at 2:49.

Dick argues women are "responsible" for protecting themselves from rape. Note how Maddox attempts to meet him halfway and concede that women are responsible "to some extent," but Dick interrupts him, clarifying that women are actually "a hundred percent" responsible.

This is Dick's response to the video, from his Facebook page. Emphasis mine.

In Maddox's goober-looking, Huffington Post-style hit-piece, he makes the wild accusation that I somehow condone rape based on a 5 second audio snippet. It's a shocking claim and he intended it to be--in fact it's the worst form of thoughtcrime you can pin on someone, that's how desperate he is. I'll post my complete thoughts on the issue here because I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable about being a fan. I think many people get it already, but it's still ugly.

Re-posted from reddit:

It's raining Goss today and it is Hot! It seems prudent to go through this entire video minute by minute on Bonus Episode 4. Why the fuck not!?

As far as my response to Maddox's question on sexual assault and my "victim blaming" view of it, I've summed it up here: https://twitter.com/dickmasterson/statu ... 8365031424

From the perspective of a single person, crime is a force of nature. It's a statistical given and should be treated as such. We all hope it doesn't happen and that it will never happen, but it does. That's reality. We punish it as hard as we can stomach the idea of accidentally punishing an innocent man, but we can't fix it. The crime will happen, but your exposure to it can potentially be influenced by your actions. As a group, we can work on the occurrence rates of crime, but as a person, you can't change the world, you can only protect yourself--AND YOU SHOULD. Expectation = Preparation.

Maddox has a way of arguing that bullies people into one-line binary responses to complicated questions. That's part of what made the show great because it was so goddamn frustrating. This clip is me attempting to explain something complicated to a man who is both aggressive, a liberal talking-head, and very much on the spectrum of autism, IMO.

For the record, Maddox started the "get raped" catch-phrase by quoting the comment from Mr. Burgers somewhere around episode 45. Obviously, I have no control over what one person posts on 8chan--unless you think Jodie Foster shot Reagan.

See you next Tuesday!


I find it disturbing he refers to condoning rape as a "thought crime," when rape is in fact an actual crime. The term thought crime is usually used for things which are a bit less transgressive than saying rape isn't wrong. For example if you want to rape someone but also believe it would be wrong, that is a thought crime. However if you want to rape someone and would actually do it if you wouldn't get caught, this is an actual statement of criminal intent. It's one step away from being a rapist.

He also blames Maddox for the fact that he chose a binary position ("a hundred percent" the woman's fault), saying that his frustration with Maddox "bullied" him into saying this. Naturally he characterizes the position of being against rape as "liberal" and "SJW," when the notion that rape is wrong is as old as humanity and has nothing to do with liberalism. Ironically this shoehorning him into the "liberal" position is exactly the bullying he was accusing Maddox of. He's dismissing his position as fueled by an agenda, rather than addressing the real issue.

This is a side note, but I have noticed a lot of people in internet culture throw around the word autism really casually. They're always attributing autism to people who don't have it, but when someone says they are diagnosed with autism they are accused of lying or using their diagnosis as an excuse. It's all very strange. I can understand using "autistic" (or "autist") as a meaningless insult, like if someone acts nerdy they are called "autistic" as a joke. However, some people seem to take the internet version of autism completely seriously. They will basically accuse someone of being autistic if they don't like them, and if they like someone, they're not "autistic," even if the person they like has actual traits of autism. It's one of the most moronic things I've seen in my life.

Anyway... Dick Masterson became famous for his website Men Are Better Than Women. I was never a big fan of his, but like everyone else I assumed this website was SATIRICAL. I also respected him for being a smart and witty writer.

Here is his appearance on Dr. Phil where it seems obvious he's trolling.



On Maddox's recent announcement, Maddox wrote some comments saying the Dick Masterson persona is not satirical. He quickly deleted those comments.

Here is an article Dick wrote about rape. It's one of the allegedly satirical articles.

A roommate who drinks all your beer isn’t a thief, he’s just a dick. A younger brother who burns your toys isn’t an arsonist, he’s just a dick. A guy who fucks a drunk girl who passed out in his bed isn’t a rapist, he’s just a dick. Get over it.


Even as "satire" this article is a complete mess. He starts by saying a lot of men are raped, which makes it sound like he's going to talk about it as an issue which affects both genders, and rip on feminists for focusing only on the female side. Then he says women don't care about rape and women are responsible for being victims. He says nothing about male rape victims being responsible for not getting themselves into prison. Ultimately he has nothing to say either about male victims or about feminism, and instead just insults female rape victims for existing. Honestly it doesn't even read as satire at all.

Maddox also criticizes Dick for his forum linking to a list on 8chan of women who should be raped, complete with pictures. Dick claims he can't control what people post on 8chan, which is more or less true (he can control what his own forum links to though) but the existence of this thread says something about the kind of fans he has. I've seen enough of his fans to say they are scary.

Dick should be thanking Maddox for editing the offensive shit he said out of the podcast. I don't know why Dick wants to be known as the guy who thinks women are "a hundred percent" responsible for protecting themselves from rape. It's frightening that his anger against women is so strong it overpowers his self preservation instincts. There are some guys out there who really hate women and it's just horrifying.
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Marcuse » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:13 pm

I don't know that a drama laden controversy between pseudo-celebrities is the place we're going to get enlightened opinions on anything. Shouting matches have a tendency to take the other side to extremes whether or not the people involved start with horrible opinions or not.

But then the whole 100% thing is one of those wibbly wobbly statements that can be taken out of context so easily. Let's ask same question in less heated circumstances.

Who is responsible for protecting person A from crime C?

Well we might place a certain degree of responsibility on law enforcement to intervene if they see C occurring, it can be said that it's kind of clear that the only person responsible for protecting themselves against C is A. This is partly because to a large degree nobody else is capable of doing so in the first place. Saying A is 100% responsible for preventing C doesn't mean that our hypothetical criminal, B, is absolved of responsibility for the C, merely that the responsibility to protection resides with A.

Of course, when you're considering rape cases it's easy to get caught up in the mindset that it's actually B's responsibility to not commit C in the first place. This is all well and good, but doesn't constitute a protection of A, if we're defining protection as a positive action to prevent C, this is conversely an omission of C to the benefit of A. So we're left with two principles which don't contradict each other:

A has a responsibility to protect themselves against C
B has a responsibility to not do C to A

As much as these might seem equal, we can hold that A has 100% responsibility to protect against C while still weighting their failure to do so as magnitudes less serious as B's failure to avoid doing C. By this measure neither principle contradicts the other, and means the criticism is deflected. But such a complicated analysis probably won't arise from the online equivalent of yelling over a picket fence...
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Re: Rape - please read the guidelines for this discussion

Postby Crimson847 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:28 pm

I do like the accusation that Maddox is a bleeding heart PC liberal who's afraid of offending people though.

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