Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby gisambards » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:16 pm

Those are very extreme examples. I was thinking more along the lines of simply that an incompetent attempt to quickly restructure a problem-riddled society might actually end up causing more damage than allowing for slow change over time. A competent radical reformation would be better than both, but if that isn't an option I do believe the status quo is a safer bet.

(Although to point out, in the case of Russia, the tsarist regime was actually beginning to make numerous beneficial reforms before the assassination of Alexander II by the socialists allowed more reactionary elements to justify clamping down on calls for social reform).
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:49 am

iMURDAu wrote:
A Combustible Lemon wrote:I think we can all agree that social conservatism is evil, and the more evil a policy is the more social conservatismer it is.


Thanks for trolling?

Oh no how socially conservative of me.
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby Windy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:46 pm

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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby iMURDAu » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:26 pm

A Combustible Lemon wrote:
iMURDAu wrote:
A Combustible Lemon wrote:I think we can all agree that social conservatism is evil, and the more evil a policy is the more social conservatismer it is.


Thanks for trolling?

Oh no how socially conservative of me.


The correct phrase is "you're welcome". Would you care to discuss the topic like others here or are you just going to continue assigning a point of view to the entire site because you need a punching bag? You are a like a living non sequitur.
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:32 pm

iMURDAu wrote:
A Combustible Lemon wrote:
iMURDAu wrote:
A Combustible Lemon wrote:I think we can all agree that social conservatism is evil, and the more evil a policy is the more social conservatismer it is.


Thanks for trolling?

Oh no how socially conservative of me.


The correct phrase is "you're welcome". Would you care to discuss the topic like others here or are you just going to continue assigning a point of view to the entire site because you need a punching bag? You are a like a living non sequitur.

Yeah, stop trying to steal my schtick!
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:42 pm

Serious discussions such as:
"In my opinion, social conservatism is when religious people do things, and the more religious they are the more social conservatist it is"
"Oh no, it's when people act conservatively on a social matter"

You'd have to believe Sellers is a complete idiot to engage with him by describing how socially conservative /might just mean/ socially conservative. That it's treated as a valid opinion is a huge indicator of the problem in the first place.
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby gisambards » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:54 pm

Sellers' exact wording was "When I hear the term [social conservatism], I think of..." That's not an expression of the opinion that social conservatism is what he described it as (religion used to regulate morality and enforce an unfair hierarchy) and only that, only that that's what he most associates with the term. And it is a form of social conservatism, not to mention one very common in sellers' part of the world, so it's hardly an unreasonable association.
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:11 pm

cmsellers wrote:
gisambards wrote:An immediate example is if the hierarchy is clearly going to be replaced with something worse - as bad as modern America can be, it's definitely not the worst it could be.
But more commonly, if the changes are very radical but ill thought-out, then I think there's a solid possibility that maintaining the status quo in the short-term will be better, to allow for a more orderly long-term transition.

So basically, the ancien regime is preferable to the Jacobins and the czar is preferable to the Bolsheviks?

However those and all the similar cases I can think of, it was the defenders of the SQ resisting moderate change that lead eventually to violent radicalism.


I feel compelled to note that resisting any and all new changes no matter how moderate or well-supported by evidence is what I would class as extreme social conservatism. Just as most liberals can appreciate that sometimes the tried-and-true is better than the new hotness, conservatism (including social conservatism) as I understand it doesn't necessarily rule out new untried reforms, it's merely skeptical of them. Toward the moderate middle of the spectrum this merely manifests as a preference for gradual and carefully-considered reform over radical, ill-considered revolution, not as a stubborn refusal to change under any circumstances.

A Combustible Lemon wrote:Serious discussions such as:
"In my opinion, social conservatism is when religious people do things, and the more religious they are the more social conservatist it is"
"Oh no, it's when people act conservatively on a social matter"

You'd have to believe Sellers is a complete idiot to engage with him by describing how socially conservative /might just mean/ socially conservative. That it's treated as a valid opinion is a huge indicator of the problem in the first place.


So you object because you feel Sellers is mischaracterizing the views of social conservatives, and you don't think anyone who mischaracterizes other people's views like that is worth taking seriously?
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:12 pm

I would like to remind people to please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:28 pm

I object because I know Sellers has a complete bullshit definition of social conservatism whose only purpose is to fedora-ishly frame it as evil.
And I don't care if you take it seriously, I care if you don't treat it with the appropriate hostility.

If you /were/ treating it seriously, you'd be appalled at the kind of person who'd call the very idea of conservatism a religious delusion. This false neutrality is disturbing if unintentional and disgusting if not.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: Split From Kavanaugh Thread: Social Conservatism

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:41 pm

Thread locked until further notice.
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