"Cat Person"

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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby sunglasses » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:49 pm

Honestly I thought it was more nervous laughter rather then laughing at him for thinking she was a virgin.

Tbh I didn't think seven partners was that many. *shrugs*
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby Marcuse » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:43 pm

Having seen a lot of people's responses to this, both here and on Discord, I think I've gotten more of a handle on what I think about it.

The first thing I figured was that I am fucking broken in this case, because more or less, I'm Robert if you take away the stupid decisions to drive the plot, sexual aggression and the "whore" line at the end. So I'm really super biased to be sympathetic to the Robert character, and it predisposes me to dislike the Margot character.

I can see where the author has tried to write sections detailing how Margot is altering her opinions and feelings in order to accommodate Robert's, and how that leads her into a situation she really didn't want to be in. However, when her true feelings toward Robert appear to be contempt, what she's actually doing is creating the conditions to break his heart. She's described as pretending to like him, pretending to find him interesting and attractive until the time comes where she doesn't want to any more and all her dislike and lack of attraction comes out and it's to the point where she can't hide it from him. The whole process is deceptive, and while it's definitely understandable that she feels under pressure to act a certain way and to please the guy she's with even though she probably shouldn't, it still amounts to lying to someone else about your intentions and feelings until it becomes inconvenient and then the alteration in her attitude is both harmful and painful. That's why she feels guilty about breaking up with him and feels like ghosting him would be wrong: she's acted in a way that leads him to reach an incorrect conclusion and then she's too ashamed to honestly disabuse him of it. She has, to an extent, used him to suit her own ego and her own gratification, and the turning point in the story is when she knows she won't enjoy sex with him and suddenly the contempt is all she can think of. The story has Tamara cut the Gordian Knot by texting him something blunt, and people have said that she's a bitch, but really she's being honest with him even if what she said was unpleasant.

Robert is, from the off, portrayed as a large unkempt threatening figure. Their first interaction over the Red Vines places them in opposition: he likes something weird and she thinks it and says it. He says (jokingly?) that he's insulted the next time she sees him, but then that kind of judgemental tone is used again and again in the story by Robert as evidence that he's a nasty person. He's portrayed without evidence as a potential murderer and rapist, and he does nonsense things to justify the characterisation even where it wouldn't make sense to do so. The section where she's drunk and coming on to him is weird as hell because he refuses her and overrides her because she's drunk and says he'll take her home, but she then vaguely protests about her roommate and he just carries on with what the plot demands and takes her to his place and engages in sex with her. It's ridiculous, either have him refuse her and have that mean something, have him not refuse and be shitty, or have something happen to change his mind. You can't write a consistent character who acts in such a contradictory way in the space of minutes without it seeming like you're writing something to make a character look bad. The same is true of the "whore" line, it's thrown in at the last second to really cement his bad-person-ness and it feels cheap. If he'd actually done something really wrong other than being male and not perfect, then it would be more in character, but other than some comments and the aforementioned actions, he doesn't do much more than be clueless and a bit ignorant.

Lastly, Robert is roundly hated by Margot for any emotional sensitivity or expression. The story literally has Margot thinking she wishes she could ask him not to make a "feminine" noise because she finds it unattractive, but cannot. I'm sure this is supposed to be another example of poor Margot having to put up with evil Robert to the author, but to me it shows how as a male, Robert isn't allowed to be anything other than a male archetype, and any deviation from this is seen as weak, unattractive and worthy of ridicule (because she keeps laughing or wanting to laugh) or contempt (because she starts to dislike him).

This is supposed to be a piece about how women are ill served by the relationship game, but all it comes off to me like is an attempt to make a rather immoral female protagonist look better by comparison to a male character who is character assassinated in order to do so.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby iMURDAu » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:13 pm

She could have rebuffed him at her job.

She could have thought twice or thrice about getting in a car with someone she literally knows nothing about. Then to think he's a potential killer and say it out loud. Were it me, I'd turn the car around and drop her off back at her car or place or whatever. Bye. What kind of sick game is that? Hey yeah we flirted but I think you might end my life so.... are you going to? And he's so desperate he sticks around.

Everything after that is an awkward train wreck of two people who apparently spend time together but never talk about anything personal with each other. Is that how people date?
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby Tesseracts » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:43 pm

I strongly disagree with everyone who said the ending of the story is bad. The entire story is awful. Remember all those teachers who told you there is a lot of garbage on TV and you should read instead? They were wrong, reading is garbage, everything is garbage.

I'm baffled by all the people saying this story is relatable. Although as a woman I'm supposed to relate to Margot, I found it much easier to relate to Robert. Neither of them are really relatable though, since they are not believable as characters. Their actions are inconsistent, changing at a whim when the plot demands it. Their actions are bizarre and the dialog is alien. Most of the praise for this story is reducing it down to the sex scene. She has bad sex with a man because she doesn't want to tell him she isn't enjoying it. However there is much more to the plot than this.

The story starts when Margot flirts with Robert by criticizing his choice in candy. What? Is that how people flirt? Then later he says "concession-stand girl, give me your phone number" and that's how their relationship starts. They begin texting every day for weeks, exchanging jokes. Robert is described as very clever, but the story contains no actual joke (unless a comment about Red Vines counts as a joke) so I can't tell you if he is actually clever or not, or really much of anything about him except that Margot finds him ugly but pursues him anyway. After talking for so long they still somehow know nothing about each other, not even their respective ages. Who does that? Who texts with someone every day without getting to know them even slightly? I guess this is supposed to be a commentary on the dangers of modern dating, but it's just as weird to not get to know someone over text as it is to talk to them in real life and not get to know them. None of this makes any sense.

The only thing we learn about Robert is that he may or may not own cats. This isn't relevant to the story in any way, and I need to warn you there are no actual cats in the story. I am told that titles which are completely irrelevant is a typical trait of New Yorker stories.

Eventually, they go to get a drink, which proves to be difficult because Margot didn't tell her date she's 20. Their interactions are awkward and distant. If I'm being generous, I would say this is a story about two people who are dating an idea of a person rather than the actual person. Robert sees Margot as an inscrutable artsy film snob, and seems both intimidated and contemptuous of her for it, even though she's really just a regular person. Margot sees Robert as a vulnerable weakling and is aroused by the power she has over him, except she also regards him as a threat when it's convenient for her. At the end of the story it's implied she falsely claimed he raped her. Margot never makes up her mind if she is attracted to Robert or not, and even as she is having sex with him she is mocking him in her head. She comes across as a childish bully. She never learns his age until after they already had sex.

If this story is supposed to be a commentary on current events or gender issues, it has failed spectacularly. It's kind of insulting to women who have been harassed, because Margot initiates everything here and still acts like the victim. She wasn't approached by someone against her will. Robert's aggressive behavior at the end isn't consistent with anything else he did and just seems to be put there to retroactively justify Margot's disgust of him. Margot is also not consistent at all; she thinks losing her virginity is extremely serious, but thinks nothing of flirting with strangers or having casual sex with someone she doesn't know very well. She's confident and socially adept enough to have a lot of supportive friends and a history of normal healthy relationships, but also socially broken enough to get involved with a guy she doesn't like and experience extreme difficulty breaking up with him.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby sunglasses » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:08 pm

Tesseracts wrote: If I'm being generous, I would say this is a story about two people who are dating an idea of a person rather than the actual person.


That...makes the most sense.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby Marcuse » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:14 pm

The only thing we learn about Robert is that he may or may not own cats. This isn't relevant to the story in any way, and I need to warn you there are no actual cats in the story.


I did wonder if the lack of presence of cats was supposed to be evidence that Robert was lying just as much about who he was as Margot was, but the plotline got dropped. I just put it down to bad writing, but I'm not sure. It could just be that there's no sense to it and the title is just ridiculous.

Margot is also not consistent at all; she thinks losing her virginity is extremely serious


That whole little vignette made no sense at all. While sure parents might be supportive of their kids losing their virginity, who the hell books them a room and gives them a damn card???
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby Ladki96 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:19 pm

Do you know what's an actual creepy dating experience author? >_>

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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby KleinerKiller » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:38 pm

The author is getting a seven-figure book deal, joining E.L. James in proving that those who write one piece of pandering trash that goes viral at the right time are more likely to succeed than hundreds of skilled authors who slave over their books for years, barely making enough in sales to last from paycheck to paycheck.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby iMURDAu » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:04 am

When someone passes through the asshole of the zeitgeist they can cash in their farts. This author saw an empty spot and filled it with something that people talked about. We talked about it here. I'm assuming we've all read it at least once so there's that many clicks. I've spent enough time watching television to know that disasters can be very compelling. All attention is attention. Whether that turns into book sales anywhere close to the number of hits the article got will be known in the future.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby satan_n_stuff » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:29 pm

iMURDAu wrote:When someone passes through the asshole of the zeitgeist they can cash in their farts. This author saw an empty spot and filled it with something that people talked about. We talked about it here. I'm assuming we've all read it at least once so there's that many clicks. I've spent enough time watching television to know that disasters can be very compelling. All attention is attention. Whether that turns into book sales anywhere close to the number of hits the article got will be known in the future.

I actually haven't read it. When someone links a story that everyone seems to agree is bad the last thing I'd do is read it. I only have so much spare time and I don't intend to waste it on things I don't enjoy.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby iMURDAu » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:20 am

You're not missing anything. It's bad. Not "so good you need to enjoy it ironically" bad. Just bad.
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Re: "Cat Person"

Postby Bromo » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:42 pm

I didn't care about the characters enough to read the entire story. They sound like they came straight out of an erotic novel.
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