Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

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Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby DomaDoma » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:21 pm

What is the Dutch cultural significance of a swan? I was watching a Dutch film that was perfectly straightforward - an ideal Hollywood epic, even - except for a couple of ominously lingering shots on swans. Are they a death omen? I think that's the most likely explanation. But if so, why, and how does this work in real life?
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby gisambards » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:39 pm

I don't think it's anything to do with Dutch culture in particular - swans are generally symbolic of peace and tranquility, or of beauty.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby DomaDoma » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:44 pm

That doesn't seem to fit. It was abrupt zooming on a painting of a swan, and then a swan served at a feast, with soundtrack rattles and phantom bird chitters. Both times, the swan was in some way associated with a doomed character. That's not all said doomed characters had in common, so I can't be 100% on this, but I can confidently say that the meaning was not good.

EDIT: Found the answer. It definitely does have cultural significance, but it's pretty much entirely confined to the historical context covered in the film. The Dutch are very much supposed to know this story, evidently.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby Tuli » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:00 pm

Maybe it has something to do with this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/swan_song

Calling someone's final performance and such a swan song is common turn of phrase where I live and apparently it's also used in German. Might be the same with Dutch.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby DomaDoma » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:20 pm

Hokay, so for general reference, the painting is this one, it's De Witt's brother portrayed as taking the first slice from the swan at the feast, and the movie is called The Admiral and you probably want to see it.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby Askias » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:42 pm

DomaDoma wrote:Hokay, so for general reference, the painting is this one, it's De Witt's brother portrayed as taking the first slice from the swan at the feast, and the movie is called The Admiral and you probably want to see it.
Fun fact: not only are the writings identifying The Threatened Swan as a metaphor for Johan de Witt added later (making it an early example of political cartoonists feeling a need for on-the-nose labels on all parts of their work), and not only is it extremely unlikely that the painting was refering to him specifically (as it was painted before or when he took the post of Stadthouder), it's very questionable whether the painting was supposed to be an allegory at all, as all other paintings by the painter are considered just standard Golden Age painting of things that were around, and none of them are viewed as politically charged. It's very possible some dipshit came along trying to make an allegory out of a nature painting, and everyone kind of accepted it because said dipshit managed to carve it into the actual work.

There's no other history of the swan I can find, although Tuli's 'swan song' does indeed exist in Dutch (''Zwanenzang''). It's sometimes used as a symbol for Luther, but Dutch protestantism was more Calvian than Lutheran.
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Last edited by Askias on Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby Windy » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:22 pm

What is the Dutch cultural significance of a swan?


Dinner
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby Askias » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:53 pm

Windy wrote:
What is the Dutch cultural significance of a swan?

Dinner

As of 15 November 2015, yes. Although swans are a protected species, if a group causes significant damage and other tactics to get them to move away prove ineffective, they may be culled. If a swan is culled, it may be sold as food.

It's usually not a great idea to try to eat a swan, though. They can deal serious injury if you piss them off.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby Anglerphobe » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:31 pm

I'm occasionally tempted to catch and roast a big, delicious, protected mute swan.

As a republican, I consider it my duty to do this.
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Re: Wanted: an insight on Dutch culture

Postby selena81 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:26 am

No particular relevance that i know off, just the swan-song thing.

I just watched the movie 'Michiel de Ruyter' for the first time a week ago, and i totally missed the thing with the swams.
Should probably rewatch, but i was frustrated with the way history was handled: too much naval fights compared to the time spend on story-telling (this should probably have been a mini-series instead of a movie).
And too much focus on the brutal murder of Johan and Cornelis de Witt: that one unfortunate incident has been paraded around again and again and again in dutch history as a piece of pro-republican/pro-patrician/anti-stadthouder/anti-future-royal-family propaganda. Let it go already, most dutch like having a king. When the patricians/republicans/patriots were in power (in the 18th century) they stiffled any progress and any chance at social climbing.

Maybe interesting for foreigners: the movie is reasonably consistent with historical facts (at least how i learned them): the battles (the famous trip up the Thames!), the political situation at the time (external battles with pretty much each of our neighbours, internal battle between 'patriots' and 'prince supporters', the private life of Michiel de Ruyter (worked himself up, was brought back from retirement, he and his wife 'stayed normal', etc.
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