U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Tesseracts » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:39 pm

Windy wrote:I'm sure Trump cares as much about his approval ratings as he did about those polls that said he had a 1% chance of being president.

Also alt-right salty.

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I am still very upset that Trump banned refugees from Syria. This is a huge refugee crisis and it's only going to get worse.


Yes, destroying a military airfield used to rain chemical death on children without a single casualty is going to make this worse than all of the trillion drone strikes Obama ordered combined.

It was bad when Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama put restrictions on refugees from some nations also.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:51 pm

Irishjava wrote:Trump: "We're not going into Syria" http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/04/11/trump-exclusive-were-not-going-into-syria.html
If Neville Chamberlain and Snookie had a stupid baby wrote:“We’re not going into Syria,” Trump told Maria Bartiromo during an exclusive interview on FOX Business. “But when I see people using horrible, horrible chemical weapons… and see these beautiful kids that are dead in their father's arms, or you see kids gasping for life … when you see that, I immediately called General Mattis.”

So... is this giving the game away? Is this an admission that the strikes were a dumb, transparent effort to draw a red line without drawing a red line? Also, I get viscerally angry every time I hear Trump bemoaning the "beautiful babies". Fuck you, guy, you're the one who strongly advocated that it's not our problem and is actively trying to refuse them refuge. I'm already used to him hating refugees, but don't pretend like you're torn up about it you soulless goblin.



It's damage control for the supporters that are angry with him and concerned about a new war in the Middle East. Nothing more and nothing less, especially coming from a guy with such a strong propensity for saying one thing and doing another.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby CarrieVS » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:36 pm

Windy wrote:
CarrieVS wrote:For accuracy, it wasn't "without a single casualty". Reports claim nine civilian casualties of the US missile strike.


Oh, so NOW we believe the Russians and Syrians. Where were you when they reported "we didn't hack your elections" and "we didn't gas our own kids?"


I haven't seen any reports claiming there were no casualties, or any commentary contradicting the report of civilian deaths or calling it unreliable. Please share if you know of any.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Windy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:16 pm

CarrieVS wrote:
Windy wrote:
CarrieVS wrote:For accuracy, it wasn't "without a single casualty". Reports claim nine civilian casualties of the US missile strike.


Oh, so NOW we believe the Russians and Syrians. Where were you when they reported "we didn't hack your elections" and "we didn't gas our own kids?"


I haven't seen any reports claiming there were no casualties, or any commentary contradicting the report of civilian deaths or calling it unreliable. Please share if you know of any.


Tomahawk missiles never miss.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby blehblah » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:54 pm

A quick side note, highly effective ways to take-out runways use cluster bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition

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A cluster munition is a form of air-dropped or ground-launched explosive weapon that releases or ejects smaller submunitions. Commonly, this is a cluster bomb that ejects explosive bomblets that are designed to kill personnel and destroy vehicles. Other cluster munitions are designed to destroy runways or electric power transmission lines, disperse chemical or biological weapons, or to scatter land mines. Some submunition-based weapons can disperse non-munitions, such as leaflets.

Because cluster bombs release many small bomblets over a wide area, they pose risks to civilians both during attacks and afterwards. Unexploded bomblets can kill or maim civilians and/or unintended targets long after a conflict has ended, and are costly to locate and remove.

Cluster munitions are prohibited for those nations that ratify the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland in May 2008. The Convention entered into force and became binding international law upon ratifying states on 1 August 2010, six months after being ratified by 30 states.[1] As of 1 October 2015, a total of 118 states have joined the Convention, as 98 States parties and 20 Signatories


They are, like chemical warfare, banned, and like chemical weapons, with wrinkles, because there are plenty still out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_m ... en.2C_2015

It's a bit complicated, though not really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-runw ... ation_bomb

Trump is correct.

https://www.cnet.com/news/trump-suddenl ... ng-runway/

"The reason you don't generally hit runways is that they are easy and inexpensive to quickly fix (fill in and top)!"


Mind, some folks don't quite get it: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/325346/ ... g-runways/

Which includes a link to the runway-busting-bomb Wiki page that I linked above. That entry ends with, "After the UK signed an international accord banning cluster mines, the JP233 was retired."

*slow clap for deathandtaxes not reading shit they linked to in their own article*

Runways are long, relatively thin, flat structures built of reinforced concrete, because they have to hold-up heavy things. To disable a runway for a significant period of time means putting lots of craters in it, not one largish one, or otherwise disrupting it in a significant way. Bombs, however large, tend to have spherical areas of effect, not lending them well to the job of hammering long, thin, flat runways.

The best, and cheapest, munitions to get the job done are illegal, and require an airplane for delivery.

Flying warplanes armed with illegal bombs into an area rife with quite capable Russian anti-aircraft systems would have been quite stupid, even in Trump terms (and the generals, I should hope, would have refused).

There is this munition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matra_Durandal

But, it still needs to be flown to the target.

A Tomahawk can deliver 1000 pounds, total, because it has to drive its way to the target.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)

It can pop-off multiple munitions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)#Munitions) but it (or fifty-nine of them) simply isn't capable of wrecking a runway.

This attack was a demonstration of 'reach-out and touch ya' power, which the US has - and how. Had the objective been to disable the airbase, it would have taken quite a bit more effort, not to mention tremendous risk at many levels.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:44 pm

Well, exactly one year after the bombing, there has been yet another chemical attack in Syria. Trump tweeted that there will be "big price to pay" and actually called out Putin by name for "backing Animal Assad".

But just days before, he said that the US will soon pull out of Syria. So what is the big price? Just bomb Assad out of power and then do nothing? That didn't exactly work out in Libya.

Oh, yeah and Trump blamed Obama for all this, naturally, writing on Twitter:

"If President Obama had crossed his stated Red Line In The Sand, the Syrian disaster would have ended long ago! Animal Assad would have been history!"

So he thinks Obama should've invaded Syria back in 2013 and removed Assad? (At the time, Trump was opposed to any intervention.) Then why didn't he do it a year ago?
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Anglerphobe » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:29 pm

Trump's ability to u-turn with impunity may be the most frustrating thing about his presidency. He acts like he can just say whatever he wants in the moment with zero regard for consistency (be it internal or external) and he's absolutely right. He can. It makes no difference to his levels of support or credibility. We can scoff all we like, make our posts on the internet and roll our eyes together, but it doesn't affect him in the slightest. It's completely unfair, like he's just exempt from even seeming to have a properly formed opinion on any issue whatsoever. And he's the fucking president of the United States. It's ridiculous.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Krashlia » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:51 pm

http://webtv.un.org/live-now

UN talks on the matter.
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Crimson847 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:53 am

Anglerphobe wrote:Trump's ability to u-turn with impunity may be the most frustrating thing about his presidency. He acts like he can just say whatever he wants in the moment with zero regard for consistency (be it internal or external) and he's absolutely right. He can. It makes no difference to his levels of support or credibility. We can scoff all we like, make our posts on the internet and roll our eyes together, but it doesn't affect him in the slightest. It's completely unfair, like he's just exempt from even seeming to have a properly formed opinion on any issue whatsoever. And he's the fucking president of the United States. It's ridiculous.


Yes, he's the president of the United States. And as president, he's shifted back and forth between an approval rating of about 36 percent and an approval rating of about 41 percent. For reference, Obama's lowest ever approval rating was about 41 percent, so Trump's ceiling is about the same as Obama's floor. Trump can't do better than this even with a booming economy, ISIS on the run, North Korea apparently at the bargaining table, and his party in control of Congress. He can't do better even after showering the populace with new debt-financed largesse in the form of the tax cut and the recent appropriations bill. He can't do better even with Democrats talking openly about eliminating ICE and repealing the Second Amendment.

Consequently, his party's Congressional delegation feels largely free to ignore him when it comes to policymaking, virtually all his legislative priorities that don't dovetail with Mitch McConnell's have been brought to a halt, and he's reduced to "pen and phone" executive actions if he wants to accomplish anything. When it comes to his own personal policy agenda (to the extent he has one) he's been more ineffectual than any president since Carter. And he's managed to invert the usual power of the "bully pulpit" to sway the public to the president's views--political positions that Trump publicly supports and champions tend to lose support among the general populace afterward, if anything.

Don't get me wrong: as president, Trump has more than enough power all on his own to make him dangerous. But he's had an unprecedentedly hard time getting people to cooperate with him, despite extremely favorable circumstances. Given that none of the usual external reasons for such political weakness apply (e.g. bad economy, opposition in control of Congress, lame duck, etc.), it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that Trump's personal qualities are indeed hurting him.
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
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Re: U.S. military launches missile attack on Syria

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:46 am

Crimson847 wrote:
Anglerphobe wrote:Trump's ability to u-turn with impunity may be the most frustrating thing about his presidency. He acts like he can just say whatever he wants in the moment with zero regard for consistency (be it internal or external) and he's absolutely right. He can. It makes no difference to his levels of support or credibility. We can scoff all we like, make our posts on the internet and roll our eyes together, but it doesn't affect him in the slightest. It's completely unfair, like he's just exempt from even seeming to have a properly formed opinion on any issue whatsoever. And he's the fucking president of the United States. It's ridiculous.


Yes, he's the president of the United States. And as president, he's shifted back and forth between an approval rating of about 36 percent and an approval rating of about 41 percent. For reference, Obama's lowest ever approval rating was about 41 percent, so Trump's ceiling is about the same as Obama's floor. Trump can't do better than this even with a booming economy, ISIS on the run, North Korea apparently at the bargaining table, and his party in control of Congress. He can't do better even after showering the populace with new debt-financed largesse in the form of the tax cut and the recent appropriations bill. He can't do better even with Democrats talking openly about eliminating ICE and repealing the Second Amendment.

Consequently, his party's Congressional delegation feels largely free to ignore him when it comes to policymaking, virtually all his legislative priorities that don't dovetail with Mitch McConnell's have been brought to a halt, and he's reduced to "pen and phone" executive actions if he wants to accomplish anything. When it comes to his own personal policy agenda (to the extent he has one) he's been more ineffectual than any president since Carter. And he's managed to invert the usual power of the "bully pulpit" to sway the public to the president's views--political positions that Trump publicly supports and champions tend to lose support among the general populace afterward, if anything.

Don't get me wrong: as president, Trump has more than enough power all on his own to make him dangerous. But he's had an unprecedentedly hard time getting people to cooperate with him, despite extremely favorable circumstances. Given that none of the usual external reasons for such political weakness apply (e.g. bad economy, opposition in control of Congress, lame duck, etc.), it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that Trump's personal qualities are indeed hurting him.


I don't know if "They're passing regressive tax plans like it's the 80s that are gonna run the deficits up so high it's gonna fuck us all in a decade" exactly gets me hot and bothered either, to be fair, and I wouldn't exactly call the two extra bucks everyone got per week "largesse", either. I think I'd rather Trump just take a shot doing crazy shit, and if it doesn't work, well, at least we can say we tried, because I know I've argued at length about the economy and how I think a lot of Fox News types and Trump are making the exact mistake liberals in the Obama years did of pointing to the stocks and being like "See, every American is doing a million times better now". I know that latley, I've kinda shrugged at the volatility of the stock market, because I don't really care how Wall St is doing. But anyways.

I've always gone back and forth over how I feel about Trump's approval rating. I always think that if someone like Truman can have a 22% for firing Douglas Macarthur (who, to be clear, absolutely deserved it) then Trump can at least lose a couple points for firing McMaster. It just feels like the goalposts or Overton Window for acceptable behavior are always moving, and I just fear that I'll wake up one day to see that he sexually assaulted a puppy on camera and his approval rating in the polls is somehow in the fifties(as in, all of them , not just Rasmussen).

I guess what frustrates me is that 40% is such a solid bloc that he can just do what he wants without real repercussion until the midterms, and probably after, and I wouldn't be surprised if 40% was still enough for him to get reelected. Whether Trump can't get his agenda passed or not, it's still miserable dealing with him as president with him not feeling like he has to check himself. I've gone on about how the Republicans right now are governing like they've been given a Reagenesque mandate by the people when they're holding onto a razor thin margin in both houses, lost the popular vote, and I just know that 40% may very well be enough to hold onto power in the Senate. Just feels like there's not much Trump can do to break that, and we're all just gonna get to sit here and deal with this shit for the next three to six years no matter how unpopular he gets with everyone who's not Republican.

I genuinely don't know whether I want there to be reasons brought for him to be impeached or not. I greatly fear the day that may come where the GOP realizes it doesn't need to convince every voter that Mueller is full of shit, just THEIR voters, which won't be hard, and then they keep on trucking with an approval in the high thirties/low forties.

Although it has been nice to sneer at hardcore/evangelic Christians these days for proving what everyone kinda already knew about them.
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