Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

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Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby cmsellers » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:07 am

As y'all know, I'm strongly against Trump. That said, Eric recently shared this article from The Hill, which is usually considered to be a reliable, establishment source.

I don't believe that the ESA should cover endangered species at all, and when it comes to non-American species what gets covered or doesn't get covered tends to be political anyways. But the primary effect of listing a non-native species under the act is that it makes it harder to keep alive large captive populations, since it bans the interstate transport of species for the purpose of keeping them as pets, while having no effect on their wild populations. A certain type of person is happy about this, because they believe that "wild animals belong in the wild" or "you shouldn't have a rare species as a pet," but these arguments are always based on pure sentiment, and I find them infuriating. So even if Trump had meddled, I'd see it as a good thing.

But the thing is, that article is glaringly wrong in the cause of the parrot's removal, apparently attributing to executive meddling the normal process by which the FWS goes through to list and delist species. It takes considerably longer than four months to modify the list of species covered under the Endangered Species Act, so unless you have evidence that Trump is meddling in the ESA far beyond his authority or apparent interests (and that's an extraordinary claim requiring if not extraordinary proof, at least some evidence), it looks like the author is trying to play on people's sympathy for parrots to score anti-Trump points.

I know one member has already expressed concern about people's dislike for Trump clouding our judgment and driving us off the deep end over perfectly reasonable things. So far, the things he's done that this member thinks are reasonable are things I think are both unreasonable and unprecedented, but this article to me is fairly clear proof of this member's concerns made flesh. I've never thought much of the expertise of journalists, because I've seen how much they get wrong on stuff I know about, but if anti-Trump hysteria can drive a mainstream, respected news source can publish clickbaity, paranoid articles about the routine workings of the bureaucracy, it makes me really, really worried.

So I think it would be great if we try to pay attention to things which "respectable" mainstream media sources publish about Trump, and if they seem to be unfounded that we call them out here and possibly discuss them.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:41 am

As I said when this was initially brought up, the article seems to be more or less fine; it's the headline that's misleading. I see two possible explanations for this: one, that The Hill is trying to drum up anger at Trump over something that he has no actual control over for ideological reasons. Two, that The Hill surmised that an article about certain species of parrots being removed from the endangered species list wouldn't get much traffic on its own, so they added the Trump angle to drum up anger (and thus clicks) for financial reasons.

Of course, both have the same short-term result: leading viewers to inaccurate conclusions about Trump. But it's the latter possibility that actually worries me more of late. Ideological preferences can be changed with a change of staff or policy, and are likely to be different for different outlets depending on their particular ideological bent and philosophical concern for objectivity. Market forces, on the other hand, are much bigger and much tougher to change, or to avoid by switching outlets. Given how much the journalism field is struggling economically of late, financial concerns can present even the most personally conscientious of journalists with a no-win choice: bend to the market, or die.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Windy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:45 am

Yes, it's Trump's fault the media is publishing clickbaity paranoid articles.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Learned Nand » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:31 am

I have to concur with Crimson here. There are examples of anti-Trump hysteria, but an accurate article that doesn't seem to omit important information shouldn't qualify. I'm not even especially critical of the title. Referring to decisions made within administrative agencies as a decision made by the "$President Administration" is a practice I've seen a number of times, including under Obama.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby D-LOGAN » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:40 am

Well there was that one dude who killed a UPS driver, shooting him and running the guy over in his truck, after mistaking him for Trump-

"I shot and killed Donald Trump purposely, intentionally and very proudly."

He told the court that he knew where president elect Donald Trump would be on Dec. 8 and waited in the Ithaca Walmart parking lot kill him.

"I went there to purposely shoot and kill him and put him down,"


Comes across as pretty hysterically anti-Trump to me ... like literally.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Kate » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:41 pm

This is the line that gets me: "Parrots, those colorful birds famous for repeating what you say, are facing fewer protections from the Trump administration." Like...I know the rest of the article is fine and makes literally no mention of Trump. But seriously? I do find this to be irresponsible and at the very least, capitalizing on anti-Trump hysteria. There are going to be at least a few people who read that and take away, "Trump is making this world more dangerous for poor endangered parrots, that bastard!"
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Learned Nand » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:58 pm

D-LOGAN wrote:Comes across as pretty hysterically anti-Trump to me ... like literally.

I mean, not literally. He's a man. He doesn't even have a uterus.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby cmsellers » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:33 pm

aviel wrote:I have to concur with Crimson here. There are examples of anti-Trump hysteria, but an accurate article that doesn't seem to omit important information shouldn't qualify. I'm not even especially critical of the title. Referring to decisions made within administrative agencies as a decision made by the "$President Administration" is a practice I've seen a number of times, including under Obama.

Generally, when I've seen that done it's because it's to some degree a political decision, which this clearly isn't. It's an entirely scientific one.

As Kate said, the lede is also misleding, since it suggests that parrots in general will have fewer protections. Neither of these is a species known for its talking ability. Plus the picture is of the president's stupid orange face, instead of either species of parrot. All of this suggests that they're trying to pin things on Trump which he had nothing to do with.

Turquoise parakeet
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Scarlet-chested parakeet
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Krashlia » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:42 am

Heh, Ithaca. According to my ex, after the elections everyone at that place engaged in wild speculation that they'll all be put in concentration camps.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby blehblah » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:16 pm

Kate wrote:This is the line that gets me: "Parrots, those colorful birds famous for repeating what you say, are facing fewer protections from the Trump administration." Like...I know the rest of the article is fine and makes literally no mention of Trump. But seriously? I do find this to be irresponsible and at the very least, capitalizing on anti-Trump hysteria. There are going to be at least a few people who read that and take away, "Trump is making this world more dangerous for poor endangered parrots, that bastard!"


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Maybe I'm reading it backwards - is it not a palindrome?
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:38 pm

Can we all just say that if Trump did just randomly show up in an Ithaca Wal-Mart parking lot, nobody would really be surprised.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby cmsellers » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:59 am

So apparently the media have been trying to claim that Trump's lawyers said all sorts of silly things about the First Amendment. While Trump is a censorious asshat, these things are not true, as TechDirt and Popehat explain.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Krashlia » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:13 pm

Isn't the actual news about him bad enough?
And, JAQing off admittedly, if someone is doing this on purpose, dont they figure that perhaps exaggerating and misinforming, as a means to an end, might make things worse?
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Kate » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:25 pm

I mean, that's kind of the point, isn't it? When media sources exaggerate and mislead, it damages their credibility. At this point, I'm pretty sure Trump could go out in public and kick a puppy and a good half of the country would roll their eyes and be like "Sure, sure, that totally happened, uh huh. What will the media say next?" Every time there is unreasonable Trump hysteria passed off as real news, it's a bad thing for anyone who cares about holding Trump accountable for real.
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Re: Unreasonable anti-Trump hysteria

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:12 pm

In less to do with the media and more to do with Ann Coulter (Seriously, fuck you as a human being) finally making a point, come the fuck on, UC Berkeley.

For those not in the know, Coulter was going to make a speech at UC Berkeley and could not have more obviously telegraphed that she was just daring them to cancel her appearance to confirm everything the far right thinks of what's widely thought to be the far left.

Anyone wanna guess what happened?

All you had to do was just not give this waste of space the attention she subsists on, but nooooo, you couldn't have that, Berkeley.
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