Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby blehblah » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:17 pm

When liars accuse one another of being dishonest, who are we supposed to believe?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/donald-tr ... -1.4764004

Trump tweet wrote:.....I did NOT know of the meeting with my son, Don jr. Sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jam (Taxi cabs maybe?). He even retained Bill and Crooked Hillary’s lawyer. Gee, I wonder if they helped him make the choice!


That is in response to Michael Cohen saying Trump Senior knew about the meeting before it happened.

CNN reported Thursday Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen, claims Trump knew in advance about the meeting. CNN cited unidentified sources saying Cohen was willing to share that information with special counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia.

A person familiar with the meeting confirmed the CNN report to The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because the person wasn't authorized to speak publicly.


I checked Trump's twitter... here are the two preceding tweets:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1022805381440069632 wrote:Arrived back in Washington last night from a very emotional reopening of a major U.S. Steel plant in Granite City, Illinois, only to be greeted with the ridiculous news that the highly conflicted Robert Mueller and his gang of 13 Angry Democrats obviously cannot find Collusion...


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1022808452677160960 wrote:....,the only Collusion with Russia was with the Democrats, so now they are looking at my Tweets (along with 53 million other people) - the rigged Witch Hunt continues! How stupid and unfair to our Country....And so the Fake News doesn’t waste my time with dumb questions, NO,....


I am guessing the "Fake News doesn't waste my time with dumb questions" is about the administration not allowing a CNN reporter to attend an event because she asked questions.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... an-collins

A CNN reporter has been excluded by the White House from a press event after asking Donald Trump about Vladimir Putin’s postponed visit and the Michael Cohen tapes.

The ban on White House reporter Kaitlan Collins sparked outcry from traditional rival Fox News and the White House Correspondents Association, which called the decision “wrong-headed, and weak”.


*record scratch*

Yup - that's right; Fox News. Perhaps, maybe, kinda, outside of their prime-time entertainment hosts, there are actual reporters who understand that where CNN access goes, so does Fox (reporters - the ones who aren't always ready and willing to 'entertain' Trump - yeah, that's you, Tucker and Sean).

CNN said in a statement that Collins was told by White House communications director Bill Shine and press secretary Sarah Sanders that her questions had been “inappropriate” and that she could not attend an event during which Trump and Juncker announced a joint working dialogue on trade.


Bill Shine, you say, formerly of Fox News, who was ousted for his efforts to help cover-up rampant sexual harassment by entertainers like Bill O'Rielly and executives like Roger Ailes? That Shine? He used the word "inappropriate"? Maybe he has some sort of deeply intellectual take on what that word means, because he seems to have struggled, for quite some time, with the definition common-folk use.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... bill-shine

Larry Klayman, a vocal supporter of President Trump who founded the conservative activist group Judicial Watch, is urging the Department of Justice (DOJ) to investigate former Fox News president and current White House communications official Bill Shine.

Klayman, who also founded the organization Freedom Watch, wrote in a letter Thursday that Shine, who joined the White House last month as deputy chief of staff for communications, should be investigated for his reported role in covering up allegations of sexual misconduct at Fox News.


Yeah, that Shine. It's almost as though there are people at Fox News who don't like Shine, or something... allegedly.

Getting back to the liar-on-liar verbal violence, if Trump Senior did, indeed, know about Trump Junior's meeting with zee Russians beforehand, that's kind-of starting to sound like collusion. Perhaps failed collusion, as was discussed back when the news about the meeting first broke, and then broke again, and again, as Trump Senior attempted to control the message and the New York Times reported differently, about a meeting he totally didn't know about, in is building, with his son, and his campaign manager, and son in-law, with a heavily connected Russian lawyer who promised dirt on Lock-her-up Clinton... wait, this is starting to sound like it could be bad...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... agram.html

Natalia V. Veselnitskaya, a Russian lawyer who met with Trump campaign officials in June 2016 on the premise that she had damaging information on Hillary Clinton, admitted to acting as an informant for a top Kremlin official. She had long insisted she is a private attorney, not a Russian operative trying to meddle in the presidential election.


Whoops, that article is from late April, 2018.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018 ... cials.html

The Moscow lawyer said to have promised Donald Trump’s presidential campaign dirt on his Democratic opponent worked more closely with senior Russian government officials than she previously let on, according to documents reviewed by The Associated Press.

Scores of emails, transcripts and legal documents paint a portrait of Natalia Veselnitskaya as a well-connected attorney who served as a ghostwriter for top Russian government lawyers and received assistance from senior Interior Ministry personnel in a case involving a key client.


Well, technically, she is a private attorney, and she wasn't trying to meddle in in the presidential election, because she was merely representing the interests of those who were meddling in the presidential election.

In any case, this could be bad. It would seem as though it's a liar-on-liar pile-up, except for that one tidbit:

"A person familiar with the meeting confirmed the CNN report to The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because the person wasn't authorized to speak publicly."

There are people who know what went-down, not just Michael Cohen.

On the other hand, every time I figure Trump is really deep in the shit, he squirms out. I am, however, starting to feel as though that squirming is getting a lot greasier. If politicians can be best judged by their willingness to be greased, and greasily squirm out of ownership of a sinking ship, this is interesting:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics ... index.html

House Speaker Paul Ryan said Thursday he does not support House conservatives' efforts to impeach Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein as the House Freedom Caucus leaders backed down -- for now.

Ryan's comments opposing the impeachment of Rosenstein, who supervises special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, came as Freedom Caucus leader Mark Meadows, a North Carolina Republican, said an agreement was reached to give the Justice Department and the FBI "one more chance" to turn over documents to Congress, but has not specified what materials have been improperly withheld.

Ryan made clear at his weekly news conference that he thought impeachment was a step too far.


Uh-huh, impeach Rod Rosenstein, because he is making the unprecedented move of not providing documents of the sort which have very rarely, if ever, been demanded of the DoJ in the past; those being documents about an ongoing investigation.

I smell a grease fire....
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby blehblah » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:09 pm

Trump revoked John Brennan's security clearance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/brennan-s ... -1.4786460

U.S. President Donald Trump abruptly revoked the security clearance of ex-CIA Director John Brennan on Wednesday, an unprecedented act of retribution against a vocally critical former top U.S. official.


The reasons why are, as usual with Trump, both confusing, and quite clear.

In a statement Trump denounced Brennan's criticism and spoke anxiously of "the risks posed by his erratic conduct and behaviour." The president described his own action as fulfilling his "constitutional responsibility to protect the nation's classified information."

Later, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Trump drew a direct connection between the Russia investigation and his decision to revoke Brennan's security clearance. The newspaper reported that Trump cited Brennan as among those he held responsible for the investigation.

"I call it the rigged witch hunt, [it] is a sham," Mr. Trump said in the interview with the Journal, which posted its story on its website Wednesday night. "And these people led it!"

He added: "So I think it's something that had to be done."


We've come a long way from Trump telling Lester Holt that he fired James Comey because of "this Russia thing". Remember those days, when such a glaring admission seemed like it would topple Trump? It's almost painful to remember how naive we were to even consider such a thing.

Brennan, in a New York Times opinion piece, agrees with Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/opin ... rance.html

Mr. Trump clearly has become more desperate to protect himself and those close to him, which is why he made the politically motivated decision to revoke my security clearance in an attempt to scare into silence others who might dare to challenge him. Now more than ever, it is critically important that the special counsel, Robert Mueller, and his team of investigators be allowed to complete their work without interference — from Mr. Trump or anyone else — so that all Americans can get the answers they so rightly deserve.


Brennan is equally clear on his opinion about whether or not Trump's organizations, including his campaign, was entangled with Russian interests.

Mr. Trump’s claims of no collusion are, in a word, hogwash.

The only questions that remain are whether the collusion that took place constituted criminally liable conspiracy, whether obstruction of justice occurred to cover up any collusion or conspiracy, and how many members of “Trump Incorporated” attempted to defraud the government by laundering and concealing the movement of money into their pockets.


My prediction is that if the Republicans maintain control of Congress via the midterms, Trump will move to quash any and all investigations into him, his family, and associates, and he will succeed. If the Democrats gain control of either chamber, Trump will move to quash any and all investigations into him, his family, and associates, and will fail. The only way I see this not happening is if he believes that Mueller will publicly reveal something before the midterms, in which case Trump will immediately react.

At this point, sadly, the GOP can be trusted to do exactly nothing. In the days of Watergate, it was members of the GOP who had a straightforward chat with Nixon, letting him know that he had the choice between quitting and being removed. Those days are long gone. The vast majority of Republicans who are running for reelection are so far down the path of willful blindness that doing an about-face on Trump would be political suicide... in a normal world.

Imagine Mueller releases an atomic bomb of a report which confirms everything Brennan says; it's not a matter of if there was collusion, conspiracy, cover-up, and other criminal activity, but is a matter of how much of all of those occurred, and how many people were involved. The GOP would swiftly move to declare any and all evidence the result of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Hell, if Putin held a press conference where he laughed his ass off as he revealed everything Trump and associates, and other US politicians, lobbyists, and other members of the political machine (Democrat and Republican), have done over the years, the GOP would dismiss it all as a tactic by a known enemy to destabilize the USA.

In the midst of that mess, the Trump administration would move to accuse everyone involved in Mueller's investigation with releasing classified material, because Trump has a "constitutional responsibility to protect the nation's classified information", after-all. It's not the information, it's that it was leaked, folks, it's that it was leaked by dastardly, traitorous, scoundrels!

But, yeah, Omarosa, and maybe Trump was recorded saying "nigger", to everyone's shock and amazement - who could have guessed? Surely nobody will be more shocked than Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, Mitch (SCOTUS is my bitch) McConnell, and Paul (tax like a butterfly, hit like a jellyfist) Ryan, and whatever, yadda, yadda... but ya can't MAGA without breaking some PC eggs, amiright?
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Windy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:31 pm

I'm glad to see that ever since Infowars was banned from existing, TCS has stepped in to fill the conspiracy theorist void.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Absentia » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:36 pm

I mean, I guess having a theory about a criminal conspiracy does technically make one a "conspiracy theorist." It's just that in this case the theory is coming from the former director of the CIA, who has (until yesterday) been reading the actual intelligence reports.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby blehblah » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:48 pm

Windy wrote:I'm glad to see that ever since Infowars was banned from existing, TCS has stepped in to fill the conspiracy theorist void.


Thank-you, Windy. That is a great example of the point which I was driving at.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby NathanLoiselle » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:15 pm

You watch InfoWars? Ewwwww.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Windy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:28 pm

Absentia wrote:I mean, I guess having a theory about a criminal conspiracy does technically make one a "conspiracy theorist." It's just that in this case the theory is coming from the former director of the CIA, who has (until yesterday) been reading the actual intelligence reports.


Yes, every conspiracy theorist finds ways to convince themselves that they aren't crazy.

The curious thing is virtually every theory and prediction made on TCS in the past 3 years has been wrong but somehow this hasn't caused us to stop and re-examine our beliefs on how society works.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby NathanLoiselle » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Hey, my prediction that everyone would find me lame was completely spot on! Spot On! I say!!
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Absentia » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:51 pm

Windy wrote:
Absentia wrote:I mean, I guess having a theory about a criminal conspiracy does technically make one a "conspiracy theorist." It's just that in this case the theory is coming from the former director of the CIA, who has (until yesterday) been reading the actual intelligence reports.


Yes, every conspiracy theorist finds ways to convince themselves that they aren't crazy.

The curious thing is virtually every theory and prediction made on TCS in the past 3 years has been wrong but somehow this hasn't caused us to stop and re-examine our beliefs on how society works.


That's all you've got? "Brennan is crazy"? I'm disappointed.

For the record, my theory and prediction is that unless somebody comes up with a video of Putin personally handing Trump a briefcase full of money there is essentially no chance he will be removed from office or face criminal charges. I would love to be wrong about that.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:57 pm

Windy wrote:Yes, every conspiracy theorist finds ways to convince themselves that they aren't crazy.

The curious thing is virtually every theory and prediction made on TCS in the past 3 years has been wrong but somehow this hasn't caused us to stop and re-examine our beliefs on how society works.


Broadening your perspective is difficult, especially when the sort of people whose perspectives you need to hear frequently deride you and people you care about as socialist libtard cucks because they're not willing to broaden their own perspectives. And when you only have one vote out of 120 million or so it doesn't make much rational sense to devote hundreds or thousands of hours to thoroughly understanding federal politics so your infinitesimally tiny say in government will be used better.

If you're into politics as a hobby I think it can be a worthwhile venture to try to broaden your viewpoint and better understand where your opponents are coming from, even if you're not involved in politics as a profession. It certainly improves one's blood pressure. But casual observers of politics aren't likely to spend the time to do that.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Windy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:38 am

Absentia wrote:
Windy wrote:
Absentia wrote:I mean, I guess having a theory about a criminal conspiracy does technically make one a "conspiracy theorist." It's just that in this case the theory is coming from the former director of the CIA, who has (until yesterday) been reading the actual intelligence reports.


Yes, every conspiracy theorist finds ways to convince themselves that they aren't crazy.

The curious thing is virtually every theory and prediction made on TCS in the past 3 years has been wrong but somehow this hasn't caused us to stop and re-examine our beliefs on how society works.


That's all you've got? "Brennan is crazy"? I'm disappointed.


Bad arguments beget bad responses, I'm not going to write an essay explaining why appeal to authority isn't a valid argument. Hang around Gamergate, /pol/, conspiracy forums, and cryptocurrency communities long enough and you begin to realize the vast majority of "authority figure says X" or "authority figure says they're going to do X" threads amount to absolutely nothing.

Crimson847 wrote:Broadening your perspective is difficult, especially when the sort of people whose perspectives you need to hear frequently deride you and people you care about as socialist libtard cucks because they're not willing to broaden their own perspectives. And when you only have one vote out of 120 million or so it doesn't make much rational sense to devote hundreds or thousands of hours to thoroughly understanding federal politics so your infinitesimally tiny say in government will be used better.


You realize you can also use this logic to convince yourself not to bother getting out of bed to vote.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby NathanLoiselle » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:48 am

Hey! Some of us really are socialist libtard cucks!

I mean, I'm not saying I'm a socialist libtard cuck but I know some.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Absentia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:50 am

I don't know what kind of authorities get cited on a Gamergate forum, but I'm inclined to believe that the Director of the CIA knows more about what Russian intelligence is doing than you or I do. I can't empirically prove that he's telling the truth, but I can stack up a lot of corroborating testimony from other people in a position to know. You could argue that they're all lying, but that would sound a lot like, well, a conspiracy theory.
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:07 am

Windy wrote:You realize you can also use this logic to convince yourself not to bother getting out of bed to vote.


Of course, and millions of people do. So?
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Of Trump, Russia, and tapps

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:46 am

Absentia wrote:I don't know what kind of authorities get cited on a Gamergate forum, but I'm inclined to believe that the Director of the CIA knows more about what Russian intelligence is doing than you or I do. I can't empirically prove that he's telling the truth, but I can stack up a lot of corroborating testimony from other people in a position to know. You could argue that they're all lying, but that would sound a lot like, well, a conspiracy theory.


I can empirically prove he's telling the truth.

Brennan said this:

Mr. Trump’s claims of no collusion are, in a word, hogwash.

The only questions that remain are whether the collusion that took place constituted criminally liable conspiracy, whether obstruction of justice occurred to cover up any collusion or conspiracy, and how many members of “Trump Incorporated” attempted to defraud the government by laundering and concealing the movement of money into their pockets.


So in other words, Brennan is claiming that while some questions remain, it's already clear there was "collusion", and that some members of Trumpworld attempted to defraud the government and commit financial crimes. That much we know already: the Trump Tower meeting has been known about for ages. Indeed, by now the government has at least one witness prepared to testify that Trump himself knew about it. That's precisely why Trump and his supporters have been test-driving the new defense that collusion is no big deal and everyone does it--trying to deny that collusion happened at all has become impossible, and trying to deny that Trump was involved is getting dicey. Likewise, we already know that at least some folks in Trump's orbit are/were crooked--Manafort's on trial for "attempting to defraud the government" and "concealing the movement of money into [his] pockets" right this very moment.

Brennan wasn't revealing some secret bombshell information; he was just restating things that are already public knowledge. He's already said in the past that he's not basing his predictions about Trump going down on secret information...and good for him, because if he was blabbing classified intelligence or secret information about an investigation while it's still ongoing, that would be incredibly irresponsible of him.
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
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