Goodbye, net neutrality

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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:26 am

Crimson, it's not about whether that sort of internet hellscape was present beforehand, so much as that corporations would be incentivized to make it as such given the opportunity, especially with some Verizon lawyer shill in place as FCC Chairman.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Delta Jim » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:47 am

Crimson847 wrote:...hmm.

So, guys, has it happened yet? Have we been thrown back to the dark ages of...let me check...early 2015?

Until 2015, there were no clear legal protections requiring net neutrality. In 2015, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) reclassified broadband as a Title II communication service with providers being "common carriers", not "information providers", in a party-line 3–2 vote.[3][4][5][6]


Ugh, remember 2015? When liberal websites, porn sites, and filesharing services were all unusable because the ISPs throttled their traffic to hell? When the average Joe couldn't make money on the internet because ISPs charged an extra $50 for viewing any site other than Google or Facebook? Remember how it was impossible for the Obama FCC to reclassify broadband providers as common carriers because the ISPs just shut down any website that promoted the idea? Truly, it was an apocalyptic hellscape. I can't believe that subhuman vermin Ajit Pai wants us to go back to those horrible old days.


If you're going to link a Wikipedia article to defend your point you might want to make sure the page you linked doesn't contradict your point.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:09 am

TIL Netflix was a liberal website, a porn site or a file sharing service, and not a major competitor to an ISP's in-house service.

I can't wait for DP to start sending death threats to Jeff Bezos and Eric Schmidt.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:15 am

Why not let competition just be competition, though? What's so wrong with being selfless and playing fair?
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:44 am

Deathclaw_Puncher wrote:Crimson, it's not about whether that sort of internet hellscape was present beforehand, so much as that corporations would be incentivized to make it as such given the opportunity, especially with some Verizon lawyer shill in place as FCC Chairman.


They had the opportunity before, for 24 years (from the dawn of the public Internet in 1991 to the adoption of the new FCC rules in 2015). If they didn't take it then, why would they do so now?

Delta Jim wrote:
Crimson847 wrote:...hmm.

So, guys, has it happened yet? Have we been thrown back to the dark ages of...let me check...early 2015?

Until 2015, there were no clear legal protections requiring net neutrality. In 2015, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) reclassified broadband as a Title II communication service with providers being "common carriers", not "information providers", in a party-line 3–2 vote.[3][4][5][6]


Ugh, remember 2015? When liberal websites, porn sites, and filesharing services were all unusable because the ISPs throttled their traffic to hell? When the average Joe couldn't make money on the internet because ISPs charged an extra $50 for viewing any site other than Google or Facebook? Remember how it was impossible for the Obama FCC to reclassify broadband providers as common carriers because the ISPs just shut down any website that promoted the idea? Truly, it was an apocalyptic hellscape. I can't believe that subhuman vermin Ajit Pai wants us to go back to those horrible old days.


If you're going to link a Wikipedia article to defend your point you might want to make sure the page you linked doesn't contradict your point.


Apparently I wasn't clear enough about what my point is. I'm not arguing that net neutrality is useless or unnecessary, I'm arguing that repealing it will not create the situation folks have been predicting in this thread, where porn becomes inaccessible, profitable content creation on the internet becomes impossible except for millionaires or big corporations, politically liberal websites are systematically blocked (or throttled to the point where they might as well be blocked), and future reinstatement of net neutrality rules becomes impossible.

I have no firm opinion on whether broadband providers should be classified as "information providers" or "common carriers" for the purpose of FCC regulations. I tend to lean toward favoring net neutrality, but I don't know enough about the issue to have real confidence in that preference. My objection is purely to the out of control hyperbole about how the internet as we know it will cease to exist if this regulation is repealed. It's completely uninformative, exhausting to listen to, and encourages vile behavior (like the comments about Pai not deserving to live).
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:52 am

Crimson847 wrote:
They had the opportunity before, for 24 years (from the dawn of the public Internet in 1991 to the adoption of the new FCC rules in 2015). If they didn't take it then, why would they do so now?


Managerial Capitalism?
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Delta Jim » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:02 am

Crimson847 wrote:Apparently I wasn't clear enough about what my point is. I'm not arguing that net neutrality is useless or unnecessary, I'm arguing that repealing it will not create the situation folks have been predicting in this thread, where porn becomes inaccessible, profitable content creation on the internet becomes impossible except for millionaires or big corporations, politically liberal websites are systematically blocked (or throttled to the point where they might as well be blocked), and future reinstatement of net neutrality rules becomes impossible.


Fair enough, that's probably my mistake. After several months of seeing people using the "things were fine before net neutrality laws became a thing in 2015, therefore there's no reason to have them" defense (which ignores the reason why that may be and also ignores that the first Net Neutrality bill was drafted in 2005 and just took a decade to finally become law) I kind of have a knee-jerk reaction to provide a counterpoint whenever I see 2015 mentioned in relation to this topic.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby IamNotCreepy » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:46 pm

I am a big proponent of Net Neutrality. I do think people are overreacting, but here are my thoughts and worries on the matter.

Before the 2015 rules, things were much as they were now. However, companies had started to test the waters of what they could get away with. The legality of what they were doing was not clear because there were not any guidelines in place.

In 2015, the government said they couldn't do those things. Now, those restrictions are no longer in place. Things aren't going to immediately turn into the Wild West, but companies are going to be more free to do shady things.

They won't do it all at once, but they will slowly try out new things. They won't necessarily be restrained by regulations, but they do have to deal with the public backlash (of course, because of local monopolies, backlash can only go so far).

Another thing to remember: Comcast is legally bound to adhere to Net Neutrality rules until at least next September. When purchasing NBC/Universal, in order to get the merger through, Comcast agreed to abide by Net Neutrality rules until then, regardless of any change to the regulations.

This will be a slow slide down. Five or ten years from now (assuming no legislation) things will look and feel different on the internet, but don't expect it to happen all at once.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby KleinerKiller » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 am

Multiple state governments are proposing bills requiring internet service providers to follow net neutrality rules, in opposition to both the FCC's impending carnage and their preemptive blanket ban on state-level interference (hey, remember when states' rights were important to a conservative government?).

The bills have yet to go beyond the early stages and will no doubt meet roadblocks, but the fact that the fight is not over even though many have thrown up their hands and simply given up looks promising.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby blehblah » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:43 pm

KleinerKiller wrote:The bills have yet to go beyond the early stages and will no doubt meet roadblocks, but the fact that the fight is not over even though many have thrown up their hands and simply given up looks promising.


I don't know if it's that many have thrown up their hands and given-up. Rather, it's accepting that the FCC is stacked toward killing net neutrality, just as it was stacked toward every administration before it.

In the Senate, the Dems have also pulled together enough sponsors to trigger a vote on a net neutrality bill.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politics/ ... index.html

Senate Democrats are touting growing momentum to reinstate Obama-era net neutrality protections, though they face a steep uphill battle to pass their bill.

Democrats announced Tuesday they have 40 co-sponsors for a resolution of disapproval that would overturn a repeal of the regulations, essentially guaranteeing them a procedural vote on the floor.


Getting it to a vote is important, politically. Every member will be on-record as either abstaining, voting for net neutrality, or voting against it. Without the vote, every member could point to the FCC, "Hey, gosh, I totally support net neutering, or whatsit called, but dang if it isn't up to the FCC".

Conveniently, from the perspective of timing, considering the mid-terms, it will take a while.

Senate Democrats are using the Congressional Review Act, which allows Congress to roll back regulatory actions by the executive branch, in their attempt to reverse the repeal. It's an effort that will take months. The FCC must first publish its final rule in the Federal Register. After that, Markey has 60 days to introduce his resolution of disapproval, which requires 30 co-sponsors to move to the floor.

Once it gets to the floor, it would go through a motion to proceed, which requires a simple majority of 51 votes. Since Republicans have a 51-49 majority, they could kill the bill if they all vote against it. To pass it, Democrats would need two Republicans to cross over to support the motion to proceed — and that's assuming all Democrats vote for it.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby aviel » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:33 pm

We have at least one Republican crossover: Susan Collins (R-ME).
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:38 pm

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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:25 pm

Ajit "Heil" Pai miiight be under official investigation for improper conduct.

"Might be" indicating that it hasn't been officially confirmed and the response has boiled down to "no comment", but I so dearly hope it comes to fruition. I don't even care whether he goes down in flames or just gets booted back to Verizon at this point, I just need him out of the big chair.
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby gregfrankenstein » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:22 am

Republicans: "We're for individual states' rights."

Republicans: "No, not like that."
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Re: Goodbye, net neutrality

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:57 am

gregfrankenstein wrote:Republicans: "We're for individual states' rights."

Republicans: "No, not like that."


No, not like that either.

Or that.

Nope.

Keep trying.

There you go.
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