Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Postby cmsellers » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:20 pm

OK, so apparently Boris Johnson is calling for an election on 15 October, two days before the meeting with European leaders, which would allow a new PM to ask for an extension before the 31st.

I don't understand why the opposition parties are opposing this. It's not ideal, obviously, but nothing in Brexit has been. Unless they plan on holding a no-confidence motion and making a Frankenstein coalition government, and it doesn't seem like they've been able to pull that off, a new election seems like their best chance of stopping Boris Johnson from imposing a no-deal Brexit.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:42 pm

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Re: Brexit

Postby Twistappel » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:26 pm

cmsellers wrote:I don't understand why the opposition parties are opposing this. It's not ideal, obviously, but nothing in Brexit has been. Unless they plan on holding a no-confidence motion and making a Frankenstein coalition government, and it doesn't seem like they've been able to pull that off, a new election seems like their best chance of stopping Boris Johnson from imposing a no-deal Brexit.

My understanding of the situation is that the "rebel alliance" MPs were mainly concerned about an election taking place before the anti-no-deal bill (I can't be bothered looking up it's proper name) passed, because there may be insufficient time to pass one after the election. There was also some concern that, having called an election, Johnson would then delay an election until after the 31st. He said he wouldn't, but he hasn't exactly shown himself to be trustworthy.

I think Corbyn, at least, is amenable to an election after the bill has received royal assent. However some MPs are concerned that Johnson will still find a way to wriggle out of his obligation to ask for an extension.

Although my understanding of UK politics is kind of limited. :?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Absentia » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:14 pm

My understanding is that the majority opposition is concerned that an election could install a Tory majority in favor of no deal. They want to keep their coalition intact long enough to secure the extension.

In particular, they're worried that Corbyn is so reviled that voters who are skeptical of Brexit would still vote Conservative just to keep him out of power at all costs. What I don't understand is why Labour doesn't just dump Corbyn if they recognize that he's toxic, but then we had a similar situation with Hillary and couldn't come up with a better answer, either.
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Re: Brexit

Postby cmsellers » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:46 pm

Labour MPs tried to dump Corbyn, but the rank and file banded around him and voted to keep him. It's basically the situation of the 2016 GOP with Trump.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Pedgerow » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:30 am

Yeah; Labour changed their voting rules a few years ago so that the party members could directly choose the party leader, rather than them being chosen by trade union leaders and the like. This resulted in a huge grassroots movement to get young people involved in politics, because now anybody can pay £2 or whatever and help choose the party leader. There were actually conspiracy theories at the time that supporters of other parties were joining Labour to vote for their most unelectable leader. But whenever you point out that he's unelectable, this new Labour youth wing counters that membership is higher than it's ever been at any other point in history, and indeed, they're not even lying.

It's also worth noting that if you need a parliamentary majority to pass laws, and a majority is opposed to Boris Johnson, then as long as Brexit is the only thing being discussed, the opposition are effectively already in power. Why jeopardise that with an election?

Also, another fabulous possibility if the government calls a vote of no confidence in itself is that because the opposition don't want parliament to be dissolved (which has to happen before an election, and which would also prevent any laws to stop no-deal Brexit), then the Labour/Lib Dem/SNP opposition might start voting in favour of their opponents, to keep them in power, while the Conservatives frantically try to persuade their opponents to stop supporting them.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:20 am

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Re: Brexit

Postby Marcuse » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:54 pm

CMSellers wrote:I don't understand why the opposition parties are opposing this.


They're opposing it because once a general election is agreed, parliament is dissolved. If Boris then comes up with an excuse to move the election date to...say 3rd November, parliament isn't in a position to prevent that.

It's also a very transparent ploy by the government to prevent the legislation forcing the PM to request an extension from passing into law. Corbyn has been positively thirsting for an election for a long time, so there seems to be some assumption that he would walk unthinkingly into a trap with such a bait laid. Of course, now he has an effective majority with the SNP and Lib Dems in support, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. It's within the power of the leader of the opposition to call a vote of no confidence in the government anyway, and he has the numbers to call it whenever he wants.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Cpt._Funkotron » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:59 pm

Deathclaw_Puncher wrote:


Hey look it's me, I'm the Conservative Government.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:57 pm


The "ORDAA!" guy is stepping down. Godspeed, you poor bastard, godspeed!
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Re: Brexit

Postby Pedgerow » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:52 am

The game's back on, baby! The UK Supreme Court has ruled that Boris Johnson's prorogation of parliament was unlawful, after a court in London ruled that it was not a legal matter and therefore okay to do, but a Scottish court ruled that you're not allowed to suspend parliament if you're doing it for legal reasons. So all the delights of parliamentary screaming matches are back on the menu, and from a legal perspective, never actually stopped in the first place. Hope you're not a vegetarian, because there's going to be a lot of beef tomorrow!

I'm actually in two minds about this, really. I never expected the courts to find so overwhelmingly in favour of my beloved Brexit traitor allies, because you're meant to prorogue parliament every so often to reset things, and that's meant to happen roughly once a year, and we're now well past double that. It's like if you saved up loads of holiday at work, working every day and accruing tons of leave, and then, when the auditors show up to check the quality of everyone's work, you conveniently use all your leave in one go to disappear to Spain for three weeks. Everyone knows you're doing it to avoid scrutiny, but should it really be illegal? Especially when parliament isn't meant to keep sitting for this long anyway. It's like if everyone loved Leicester's Premier League season so much that they decided it shouldn't end, and that rather than start a new season, everyone should just keep playing that season forever.

Also, they've passed the law to compel Boris Johnson to ask for another extension now; the only thing really left to settle is to make sure he does it, which I am confident he will. (As an aside, if anyone wants to see the Operation Yellowhammer document, the government's own predictions for what will happen under a no-deal Brexit, here it is, released a few weeks ago).

Of course, Boris Johnson still has his supporters. This poor guy seems to be generating some online hate for supporting him (or rather, "Joris Bohnson") while guilty of being a bit of a 20-watt lightbulb, intellectually. I could never support such cruelty. For one thing, I've been calling Boris Joris Bohnson for weeks. It's hilarious literally every time you do it. For another thing, this guy looks just like my boss, and my boss is from Stoke too, so they could be related, and I don't want to get in trouble.
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Re: Brexit

Postby cmsellers » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 pm

So, the EU has flip-flopped multiple times on whether British businesses with .eu domains should be allowed to keep them, eventually deciding on "not if Britain leaves the EU."

Thing is, this isn't a difficult question. The rule has always been that if the rules for getting a domain name change, you get to keep your domain. It's why Academia.edu and several high schools all have .edu domains. It's why the .su domain name is still in use today, three decades after the demise of the Soviet Union. Now, in fairness, the .yu (Yugoslavia) TLD was entirely deleted after Montenegro divorced Serbia, but there was still a three year transition period.

Hanlon's Razor says I should blame the bureaucrats in Brussels for being tech-illiterate mandarins rather than any malice on their part, but the article description sure makes it look like the final flip-flop to "no" was a decision made out of petty spite.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Krashlia » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:29 pm

Okay, okay. Britain unilaterally leaves the EU with Northern Ireland...
But Ireland keeps Gibraltar as compensation for breaking the Good Friday Agreement.
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Re: Brexit

Postby cmsellers » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:33 pm

Your proposal leaves Brexiteers and Ulster Unionists happy, and a good compromise leaves no one happy. Which is why I'm still advocating for a "Brexit" in which only Northern Ireland leaves the EU. #NIEXIT
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Re: Brexit

Postby CarrieVS » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:57 pm

Whether we leave with no deal on Halloween, or don't leave on Halloween, I'm betting the 5th of November will be a bit political this year.
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