“I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.”
~Molly Ivins
“I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.”
Marcuse wrote:That aside, it's a non-issue he's complaining about. I'm not American so it doesn't make me particularly mad that people don't stand for the flag. However, they are deliberately refusing to do something that costs nothing in order to make a point that they won't respect a symbol of the nation of which they are a citizen. It seems somewhat churlish to remain a part of such a nation if it is, as I understand they say, so oppressive that the whole nation needs to be deliberately refused in such a way. Of course they have the right to do so, I would suggest that it doesn't protect them from the consequences of their decision if that statement costs them in the future.
I'd point out that as someone who's been looking into leaving the US, it's not an easy thing to do to find a job and home somewhere else (much less another country), plus people get attached to the people they are around (but not me #lonelylifeisbestlife).
I don't know. Trump is president right now,
everyone calls black people who aren't clean cut and dressed in suits 'thugs' (because I suppose racial slurs are too on the nose nowadays),
and I know at least four people in my life (three of which are direct family) who have also used racial slurs in referring to black people.
And that's without considering the policing thing.
If black people feel like maybe it's a bit fucked up that they're being asked to respect the symbol of a country that clearly hates them but is too ashamed to outright say it, I don't blame 'em. Might do the same thing, in their shoes.
Marcuse wrote:I'd point out that as someone who's been looking into leaving the US, it's not an easy thing to do to find a job and home somewhere else (much less another country), plus people get attached to the people they are around (but not me #lonelylifeisbestlife).
I don't know whether that kind of thing is such a barrier to a multimillionaire sportsperson though. At the very least they probably have enough recognition and contacts that they could make a move within their career path without an unreasonable amount of difficulty.
Gonna snipe a little so I don't conflate points.I don't know. Trump is president right now,
Because for many of those millionaires, this is their home. For many people, when your home is fucked up, you don't leave it, you try to fix it.
Presidents are transitory. I know that he's a bellowing idiot who's about as politically literate as a bonobo, but he won't be president in 3 and a bit years (I hope). Last I checked, the US had a serious problem with racism and police shootings when Obama was President, so I don't know that it's really any material difference now given Trump couldn't pass flagship legislation with both chambers of congress in his favour.everyone calls black people who aren't clean cut and dressed in suits 'thugs' (because I suppose racial slurs are too on the nose nowadays),
Sure, and it's shitty. But I would wager that white people dressed in the same way wouldn't be considered fine upstanding members of the community either. At least here, there's a big problem with an ill-educated white underclass being subject to social stigma too, it's just that nobody protests about that.and I know at least four people in my life (three of which are direct family) who have also used racial slurs in referring to black people.
Racism is definitely bad. I don't know that it's within the state remit to police those private opinions though, much as we might deplore them.And that's without considering the policing thing.
Absolutely there's a really serious issue with armed police in the US killing people and being legally in a position where they face next to no consequences for it. It's also really serious that they seem to be killing minorities at a higher rate than other groups (IIRC Native Americans are the most over represented in that list). The solution isn't easy, and nothing about kneeling before a flag, or Trump's dog whistling, will stop that.If black people feel like maybe it's a bit fucked up that they're being asked to respect the symbol of a country that clearly hates them but is too ashamed to outright say it, I don't blame 'em. Might do the same thing, in their shoes.
I'm confused as to why a symbol of the nation is relevant to the actions of some people from that nation. We can speak at length about the manifest and clear disparities in how different ethnic groups are treated and consider ways to stop that, but it's neither here not there to professional athletes and whether they stand up near a flag or not. I suppose the problem is that people are totally on board with the symbolism of kneeling, but can't grasp why other people would think that the equally symbolic stance of respect for the flag is important too.
You kinda disproved your own point in bringing up shooting happening under Obama. Presidents are transitory, but racism is not. Right now, it's on the upswing, and it probably will be as long as economic disparity continues to be on the upswing.
And Trump may be ineffective, but Jeff Beauregard Sessions III (his attorney general who's in charge of the justice system, and yes that's his real full name) is not,
while Trump's hemming and hawing on Charlottesville has raised some sympathy in Republican circles for white nationalists, which I continue to contend are just white supremacists but without the violence. Words have consequences, to quote the most uninspiring presidential candidate since Whitebread McProfessorson.
And actually, I'd argue our white ill-educated working class has been afforded about twenty million sympathetic articles on their plight since the election.
I'm not talking about policing personal opinions, but do wish to illustrate that racism isn't something minor that isn't worth protesting about.
Actually, protesting has eventually changed things in this country. Whether it does now is hard to say.
I don't think you need to lecture me on not grasping people who have respect for the flag. I have respect for it in what it's supposed to represent, in the ideals it's supposed to uphold. Right now, we're not upholding those ideals (and at least one political party out of two is directly fighting against issues of race), we're actually going backward on most--if not all--of them. So if you want to take a knee because you find the situation unbearable, go nuts.
I'm confused as to why a symbol of the nation is relevant to the actions of some people from that nation.
Zevran wrote:Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speeds can kill.
Kate wrote:Trump is an idiot and an asshole for engaging in this and I think Doods is trying to say he is the fucking president of the United States and should not be engaging in this bullshit and telling people not to exercise their speech, but hey, he's Trump. I bet he thinks "Obama got involved with the Redskins so what are they complaining about?"
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