President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby cmsellers » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:36 am

Krashlia wrote:Guys, Pray to God that we never experience a major terror attack under his watch or else we'll have to deal with him and his administration for four extra years.

And really pray that the attack isn't on Trump Tower, or he'll use the goodwill it generates for him to make the presidency hereditary.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby blehblah » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:27 pm

At this point, I really can't stop myself, because Trump can't.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... -the-press

According to The New Yorker, Trump brought a bunch of media types to Trump Tower and ripped into them.

The fantasy of the normalization of Donald Trump—the idea that a demagogic candidate would somehow be transformed into a statesman of poise and deliberation after his Election Day victory—should now be a distant memory, an illusion shattered.

First came the obsessive Twitter rants directed at “Hamilton” and “Saturday Night Live.” Then came Monday’s astonishing aria of invective and resentment aimed at the media, delivered in a conference room on the twenty-fifth floor of Trump Tower. In the presence of television executives and anchors, Trump whined about everything from NBC News reporter Katy Tur’s coverage of him to a photograph the news network has used that shows him with a double chin. Why didn’t they use “nicer” pictures?

For more than twenty minutes, Trump railed about “outrageous” and “dishonest” coverage. When he was asked about the sort of “fake news” that now clogs social media, Trump replied that it was the networks that were guilty of spreading fake news. The “worst,” he said, were CNN (“liars!”) and NBC.


The media thought it was a chance to ask Trump questions. Here's how one attendee described it:

Another participant at the meeting said that Trump’s behavior was “totally inappropriate” and “fucking outrageous.” The television people thought that they were being summoned to ask questions; Trump has not held a press conference since late July. Instead, they were subjected to a stream of insults and complaints—and not everyone absorbed it with pleasure.

“I have to tell you, I am emotionally fucking pissed,” another participant said. “How can this not influence coverage? I am being totally honest with you. Toward the end of the campaign, it got to a point where I thought that the coverage was all about [Trump’s] flaws and problems. And that’s legit. But, I thought, O.K., let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. After the meeting today, though—and I am being human with you here—I think, Fuck him! I know I am being emotional about it. And I know I will get over it in a couple of days after Thanksgiving. But I really am offended. This was unprecedented. Outrageous!”

Kellyanne Conway, who managed Trump’s campaign and who is now his senior adviser, said that the meeting had been “very cordial, candid, and honest.”


Here's a partial list of who was there (not exactly anonymous copy writers):

The participants all shook Trump’s hand at the start of the session and congratulated him, but things went south from there. The attendees included around two dozen anchors and executives from CBS, NBC, CNN, and ABC, including Lester Holt, Chuck Todd, Wolf Blitzer, Gayle King, David Muir, and Martha Raddatz. The Trump people did say that they would allow the new President to be followed, as tradition has had it, by a team of pool reporters.


An article on the same from New York Post: http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/donald-tru ... ing-squad/

And a slightly more toned-down article from CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/21/media/d ... -networks/

I seem to recall another POTUS who was outright paranoid about his treatment by the media. I heard that after he quit he opined that the media wouldn't have him to kick around anymore.

Trump seems to think the media should behave like a PR department. I don't think it's anything nefarious, but rather, is mildly delusional. It's odd for a guy who has spent decades manipulating the media. One article noted Trump indicated the media treats Obama well, leading me to wonder if he looks at only NYT and WaPo (and SNL, of course... highly overrated) and has never watched Fox News.

Oh, wait... http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/11/22/do ... ring-squad.

Working the refs is a tried and true tactic. However, I think Trump is going about it wrong. He is obviously quick to react; between SNL and Hamilton, either he did a great job of deflecting from Friday's news about the Trump University settlement, or he - once again - let the worst parts of his nature take-over.

Gathering a who's-who of major media outlets into a room to give them shit for not playing nice, off the record, and having the whole thing spilled hours later says it all. Were I a media executive looking for exposure, I'd be telling my staff to carefully maintain credibility while doing everything they can to make Trump react. Once you get there, he makes himself the story. Pence blew-off the whole Hamilton thing, and the story would have quickly died, until Trump reacted.

It must be amusing knowing you have a direct connection to Trump's delicate ego.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Tuli » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:41 pm

And the thing that kills me the most is that none of this will matter to his supporters and it will just be decried as "another media conspiracy to make Trump look bad". Because all criticism of the great leader is dishonest and corrupt and the only reliable sources of information are his own mouthpieces. No bias there, nope.

Honestly, the whole rhetoric reminds me of Russia. Anyone who criticizes the state would be labeled an "American spy", "fascist" or someone who is "bought out by the West" by the authorities, rendering the criticism automatically illegitimate. Trump's team has been doing the same thing essentially with their propaganda against the media - by now his supporters are unwilling to consider any criticism coming from mainstream media outlets, because those are just "mouthpieces of the establishment" or "owned by the Jews".
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby IamNotCreepy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:53 pm

I think this is the most disconcerting thing so far since he has been elected.

The members of the press are not going to pull any punches. If he can't learn to deal with that, he is going to keep lashing out. He may restrict their access to him, which would be a dangerous precedent.

If Trump were to go the fascist dictator route, the first thing he would do would be to undermine and restrict the press.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Marcuse » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:08 pm

Trump has openly disavowed the alt right. At least the group in this video.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38069469

Given people were holding an alt right meeting where secret filming revealed that they were making Nazi salutes and shouting "Heil Trump", it's probably inevitable that he did. Though I suppose with Trump nothing is inevitable at all.

Either way, it's probably generally good that he disavowed them, but I doubt it's going to see Stephen Bannon removed as head of strategy. I think general misunderstanding about what the alt right is has convinced the hopeful media that his statement was a general one against the alt right. I somewhat think he's merely disavowing the people making Nazi salutes that he can see right in front of him, and if other people are saying a quiet Heil Trump in their room, he doesn't much care.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Masonator » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:35 pm

Trump canceled an interview with the NY Times, suggesting that they had 'changed the terms' (the NY Times claims differently, but I'm done caring about the actual facts over this kind of shit). Then he said perhaps it could be rescheduled. Then he claimed that complaints against the NY Times were at an all time high (oh geez, wonder why, could it be because you keep blasting the paper as inaccurate, biased, and your followers for some reason believe you?). Then he said that the interview was back on and he was looking forward to it.

All of this happened in the span of 4 hours. I'd say he has the memory of a goldfish, except that he can hold a grudge over the stupidest shit forever. I can just picture him 10 years from now still insulting Rosie O'Donnell.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Windy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:25 pm

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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Aquila89 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:35 pm

Neo-Nazis don't care if Trump disavows them. They're convinced that when he's saying something like this, he's lying to con the rubes, but he's secretly with them. That is because they are incredibly fucking stupid. This is also evidenced by them parading with Tila Tequila - star of reality shows and porn who expressed pro-Nazi views before then apologized and blamed them on drugs and depression, then became a neo-Nazi again.

One would think the nao-Nazis oppose the "degeneracy" of reality shows and internet porn, but I guess beggars can't be choosers. It's reassuring to some extent that right now they are that desperate. Trump wasn't. Tila Tequila endorsed him, he never acknowledged that.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby blehblah » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:58 pm

After being set-up, then cancelled (Trump wanted it off the record, NYT refused), then being on again, a bunch of NYT big shots got together with Trump for an on-the-record interview. NYT has published the full transcript here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/po ... cript.html

It's lengthy, as you can imagine, and contained quite a few... what would we call them at this point... shockers wow moments things we've come to expect from Trump.

The NYT has, as expected, generated a lot of content about it (Google news for New York Times Trump). Devious pro tip, if you hit your limit, go incognito (or, you know, pay, because The NYT is pretty good).

Here is an overview: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/po ... visit.html

Trump is (maybe):

- Keeping an open mind about the Paris climate change agreement, while at the same time, bringing-up a long-debunked controversy about leaked emails between scientists
- Not as sure about the use of torture as he was
- Not going to pursue investigations against the Clintons (while he's not in a position to affect things, but the email thing is done, and word is investigations into the Clinton Foundation aren't going to go anywhere)
- He... and this is very troubling... indicated that the law is on the side of the President when it comes to conflict of interest (here's "A semi-comprehensive list of the business concerns that may influence the president-elect as he prepares for the nation’s highest office" from The Atlantic)

When you scroll through the transcript, you'll find a lot of "we'll look into it", "we're looking into it", and other variations. It's obvious he hasn't spent the last couple weeks getting up to speed. He also leaves the door open for many, many things, whilst his actions (cabinet picks) don't quite gel with how he was trying to work the room.

But, I keep going back to his stance on conflict of interest. "When the president does it, that means it is not illegal." The laws around conflict of interest were built to insulate the POTUS so decisions can be made that are in the best interests of the country without fear of prosecution due to conflict of interest, not the other way around.

That's a famous quote from Nixon which, while seemingly straightforward, has a complicated context:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Nixon-say ... ot-illegal

Here's The New Yorker keying off that same quote: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... dent-elect

Circling-back to Trump having a sit-down with the senior movers-and-shakers at The New York Times, one simple question comes to mind; why?

Trump spent plenty of time during the campaign, and even after his win, shitting on the media. The NYT and Washington Post were singled-out many times (or at least, more than others). The NYT is the big dog, and none too friendly. Meanwhile, Trump hasn't done a proper news conference, as is traditional.

I would wager that Trump gambled, as he is wont to do, that heading into the lion's den, with some pretty sharp people, was a great way to manage things. He dumped on media folks days earlier, then negotiated this boardroom-style interaction with the biggest of the liberal-leaning media outlets out there. There were no video cameras (or at least, no video has been released) so his dithering, his working of the room, is apparent from only the transcript.

He figured he could control the situation by making it on his terms, address the media, and take-on The New York Times, all in one shot. I can imagine the negotiations; "Trump Tower", "Nope, our offices", "Off the record", "Nope, recorded", "No video", "Voice recording", and on and on. In the end, The NYT knew it was a big scoop, and so they accommodated, while for Trump, it was a controlled showcase.

You have to wonder what his advisers were going through as this played-out.

"Hey, the boss wants to sit-down with the top people from NYT."
"Like the 60 Minutes thing?"
"Nyah, kinda... like him, in a room, with them, riffing, he can handle it."
"Off the record, right?"
"Is The Apprentice off the record?"
"Shoot me now."
"Kellyanne, the boss wants what the boss wants, so either do it, or you're fired!"
"Fine... thanks for the heads-up, Ivanka. Can we talk about this Shinzo Abe thing?"
"I would love to, but I have a 5 o'clock with Argentina... I mean, we have..."
"I didn't get that invite."
"Yeah, k... gotta run."
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:33 pm

EstebanColberto wrote:
cmsellers wrote:
EstebanColberto wrote:I'd be more reassured if I thought Donald Trump had any principles whatsoever. From what I've seen he's just an id in an orange clown suit. On the other hand, he clearly wants people to like him, and not doing what Paul Ryan wants with respect to Obamacare will help in that respect.


Principles? He doesn't have any of those. He only has goals and is willing to do anything to reach them. He's also a self-serving narcissist that only cares about his business and his money. Why should he care that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax because they're too poor to pay it. Why should he care that an entire generation of young people are saddled with student debt they can never hope to pay off. Why should he care that medical costs are so high that people have to sell their homes to pay for their treatment. Why should he care that millions of people don't have a steady permanent job and have to work two part-time jobs just to eke out a meager living. Take a vacation? Forget it. There's just no money for it. We just stay at home and watch Netflix on our days off. We've all given up the American dream at this point. We live with our parents longer cause we can't afford the rent and we're definitely not going to buy a new house. Not when we could lose our job at the drop of a hat. Meanwhile, Donald Trump just sits up there on his golden tower without a care in the world. He's just raking in the money from his business, while we don't have a dime of disposable income.

What was his business again? Oh right. Real estate, housing, apartment complexes, hotels, casinos, luxury resorts, golf courses, entertainment venues, tourist attractions. How are those doing by the way? They're not going bankrupt or anything are they?


So he's gonna go to enormous trouble to get a single-payer system through a GOP Congress, give the little people a bunch more disposable money, and then...hope some of that money trickles down to him?



Alternately, he could just give himself a massive tax cut, with the full support of his party, and make himself richer that way, as he's already declared his intention to do. Or he could use his influence as President in order to boost his businesses, like he's already been doing since he got elected.

I mean, if I wanted to get rich without working for it, I suppose I could buy a bunch of lottery tickets for someone else and then just hope they give me some of the money if they win...but it would make a heck of a lot more sense to just buy the tickets for myself and cut out the middleman.



That being said: ladies and gentlemen, this is why Trump will be a one-term president. Colberto isn't alone here--a substantial proportion of Trump voters in the Rust Belt voted for him in hopes that he would be more liberal than Obama on economic issues. What makes this unsustainable is that he can't possibly please these people and the GOP base that's mostly responsible for his victory at the same time, because they want him to go in precisely opposite directions on economics. If he pushes for single-payer, he loses the GOP base right then and there. If he goes along with the GOP's core economic plans (repeal Obamacare without a replacement ready, give the rich a massive tax cut, slash social welfare spending on everything from Medicaid to food stamps, etc.), then instead he loses the blue-collar folks who put him over the top in the Rust Belt. There's no way for him to thread that needle; the bare minimum demands by each side are dealbreakers for the other side.

This is the problem with promising everything to everyone and providing no real policy plans beyond "trust me"--it wins you a lot of support very quickly, but you end up with a coalition that will turn on you to some degree when you inevitably fail to keep all those promises.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby blehblah » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:46 pm

*puts on devil's advocate hat*

Trump tries to do all the things; all that great, impossible, stuff he promised, and he is thwarted at every step!

For four years, he rails against the powers-that-be. He struggles against a vindictive elite who accuse him, via dishonesty, of every variation of things. Even worse, the fucking Dems win in mid-terms!

The wall-fence is stopped, because terrible things. Foreign policy is a gong-show, because everyone has worked against Trump, and... he wins another four years.


All we need is a birther movement.

Damnit, Snopes... http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-was- ... -pakistan/

Well, we always have great-grandpa Trump.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/ ... friedrich/

Shit... if only they had let him stay, Grandpa Trump would have been Germany's biggest problem... there is no positive way for this comment to end.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Piter Lauchy » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:53 pm

blehblah wrote:Shit... if only they had let him stay, Grandpa Trump would have been Germany's biggest problem...

#sorrynotsorry
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Aquila89 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:15 pm

Crimson847 wrote:That being said: ladies and gentlemen, this is why Trump will be a one-term president.


There's no way for him to thread that needle; the bare minimum demands by each side are dealbreakers for the other side.

This is the problem with promising everything to everyone and providing no real policy plans beyond "trust me"--it wins you a lot of support very quickly, but you end up with a coalition that will turn on you to some degree when you inevitably fail to keep all those promises.


Yeah, sure. People said that there's no way he'll be the Republican nominee. And then they said there's no way he'll get elected.

With Trump, things stopped making sense. No more predictions.

And besides, even if his voters lose faith in him, I'll see little reason to believe that the next election will be better. These people became so desperate that they actually elected Donald Trump. If he won't improve their situation, they'll be even more desperate.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:57 pm

Aquila89 wrote:Yeah, sure. People said that there's no way he'll be the Republican nominee. And then they said there's no way he'll get elected.


Some people did, but the evidence didn't support either conclusion, and this was discernible (and observed by many) well in advance. Yes, Hillary was favored to win the election. Yes, some folks on the left stupidly tried to convince themselves that her win was essentially guaranteed. However, anyone who was paying attention knew Trump had a real shot at the nomination by late 2015, and knew he had a real shot at the Presidency by the time he won the GOP nomination.

And besides, even if his voters lose faith in him, I'll see little reason to believe that the next election will be better. These people became so desperate that they actually elected Donald Trump. If he won't improve their situation, they'll be even more desperate.


Depends who the Democrats can field. If they can come up with another Sanders they'll win 'em back easily. If it's another Obama some will probably go along with that, though with little enthusiasm. If it's another Hillary, they'll probably stay home. That said, even that last option would more likely than not cost Trump the election--he needed those voters to punch a hole in the "blue wall". If they stay home, and he can't pick up enough support elsewhere, the wall stays put and he loses.
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Cobra-D » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:15 am

Crimson847 wrote:
Aquila89 wrote:
Depends who the Democrats can field. If they can come up with another Sanders they'll win 'em back easily. If it's another Obama some will probably go along with that, though with little enthusiasm. If it's another Hillary, they'll probably stay home. That said, even that last option would more likely than not cost Trump the election--he needed those voters to punch a hole in the "blue wall". If they stay home, and he can't pick up enough support elsewhere, the wall stays put and he loses.


Tammy Duckworth everybody. Sellers sold me on it so let's do this.


Man how interesting would that be. Tammy vs the Donald (assuming we haven't impeached Hume yet), I feel like she literally could just stand there and win...well maybe not stand but you know what I mean.
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