President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby blehblah » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:15 pm

The Trump tweet about firing Flynn for lying to the FBI is very interesting.

First, obstruction of justice has a precedence for impeachment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/water ... impeached/

In July the Supreme Court ordered Nixon to turn over the remaining tapes, which he again tried to resist.

The House of Representatives lost patience, voting to impeach Nixon for obstruction of justice, abuse of power, criminal cover-up and several violations of the Constitution.


Ultimately, Nixon wasn't impeached because of the original crime, but because of the cover-up. Also, he quit once it became apparent he was done-for.

Clinton was impeached, kinda, for the same reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachme ... ll_Clinton

The impeachment process of Bill Clinton was initiated by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, against Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States, on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice.[1] These charges stemmed from a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Clinton by Paula Jones. Clinton was subsequently acquitted of these charges by the Senate on February 12, 1999.[2] Two other impeachment articles – a second perjury charge and a charge of abuse of power – failed in the House.


NB - bold is mine.

I don't know if Trump's lawyer is taking a bullet. It does occur to me that Trump admitting he knew Flynn was lying whilst he encouraged Comey to go easy on Flynn is clearly obstruction of justice. There is a very important difference between Trump encouraging Comey to go easy on Flynn while knowing Flynn lied, versus going easy on Flynn because he's such a good guy. The former is obstruction, the latter is innocently trying to help a bro.

Now, Trump is saying he didn't ask Comey to go easy on Flynn, because that's his only way out of this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 917233001/

President Trump denied any attempt to obstruct an FBI investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn on Sunday, while lawmakers said the president's own comments raised new questions about him and the probe into Russians who interfered in last year's presidential election.


Right - so... we have a POTUS tweet saying, in retrospect (maybe), he fired Flynn because Flynn lied to the FBI, while at the time, it was because Flynn lied to Pence, which he learned from... I guess the fake news (not someone he totally fired), or something, because knowing Flynn lied to the FBI would be bad. We have a Trump lawyer saying he twitted the tweet, because Trump would never be so daft, and by the way, the tweet figured poor Flynn didn't do anything wrong in the first place (which... eh... the contortions are exhausting).

To apply the simplest explanation... Trump tweeted something stupid, because he forgot, or didn't ever fathom, why admitting that he knew Flynn lied really, really matters, like, a lot. One of his lawyers fell on his sword.

The second part of Trump's tweet, about there being nothing necessarily illegal about Flynn reaching-out to various groups to scuttle a UN security council thingy against Israel, to Russia to chillax about Obama's reaction to election meddling (with Russia absolutely did, just by-the-by), is actually defensible. The Logan Act is kind-of obscure, and has never really been used.

It is always the cover-up, which in this case, is fantastically inept, mainly due to the central figure constantly fucking it up.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Absentia » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:49 am

blehblah wrote:Ultimately, Nixon wasn't impeached because of the original crime, but because of the cover-up. Also, he quit once it became apparent he was done-for.


Technically Nixon was never impeached. The House Judiciary Committee approved articles of impeachment, including one for obstruction of justice, but he resigned before the full House could vote.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby blehblah » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:23 pm

Absentia wrote:
blehblah wrote:Ultimately, Nixon wasn't impeached because of the original crime, but because of the cover-up. Also, he quit once it became apparent he was done-for.


Technically Nixon was never impeached. The House Judiciary Committee approved articles of impeachment, including one for obstruction of justice, but he resigned before the full House could vote.


Quite true - I meant to include that as 'quit once it became apparent he was done-for, avoiding actual impeachment', but, the thought bubble floated away before the fingers typed it.

Sometimes I SQUIRREL!

I'm not the only one scratching his head about Trump's lawyer saying he wrote the tweet in-question.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lynn-tweet

Legal experts have voiced their surprise and concern after an attorney for Donald Trump sought to take the blame for a tweet sent from the president’s personal account that could signal he took part in the obstruction of justice.


Either one could say, "With defence lawyers like Dowd, who needs prosecutors?", or, "There are plenty of folks who wish they had a lawyer as committed as Dowd." Take your pick.

In an interview with Reuters on Sunday he elaborated, saying that he had drafted the tweet and made “a mistake” when he composed it.

“The mistake was I should have put the lying to the FBI in a separate line referencing his plea,” Dowd said. “Instead, I put it together and it made all you guys go crazy. A tweet is a shorthand.”

Dowd said the first time the president knew for a fact that Flynn lied to the FBI was when he was charged.

He said it was the first and last time he would craft a tweet for the president.
“I’ll take responsibility,” he said. “I’m sorry I misled people.”

Talking to NBC he said: “I’m out of the tweeting business. I did not mean to break news.”


The article also includes a pretty hilarious observation from Twitter.

We’re supposed to believe John Dowd wrote pled instead of pleaded?


In either case, the trick is, Trump surely read the draft before it went out on his feed. Granted, the new-ish 280 character limit may be straining his attention span, but the error/admission is in the first sentence.

If you find this incredulous, it's okay - Dowd has offered a newer, shinier (and whom, I ask, doesn't love the colour shiny?) explanation!

https://www.axios.com/exclusive-trump-l ... 42663.html

The "President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case," Dowd claims.


Oh, well... that solves it, then. Forget executive and judicial separation. Hell, Trump is probably also the American Pope, and Grandest Wizard of some super-duper-secret organization with initials that rhyme with eh-eh-eh. Erm... maybe a tad too much power is being concentrated in the office... but, that's a different debate (no, no it's not).

I'm no legal scholar of Dowd's stature, but I'm guessing Dowd is referring to the idea that the chief of the Executive, as laid-out by Article II, has a certain amount of immunity to prosecution, which he says includes obstruction of justice. In other words, he figures POTUS can commit any crime, because diplomatic POTUS immunity. As I understand it, in simple terms, POTUS can be tried, as Clinton was for perjury, but it's by Congress, not the judicial branch, for happenings when in-office.

I'm not really sure Dowd is helping a whole lot...

Meanwhile, Billy Bush states the obvious.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/opin ... eft-region

He said it. “Grab ’em by the pussy.”

Of course he said it. And we laughed along, without a single doubt that this was hypothetical hot air from America’s highest-rated bloviator. Along with Donald Trump and me, there were seven other guys present on the bus at the time, and every single one of us assumed we were listening to a crass standup act. He was performing. Surely, we thought, none of this was real.

We now know better.


I have to admit, until the most recent bit of news about Billy Bush's NYT column, I didn't realize he's one of those Bush's. His uncle is George H. W. Bush.

That explains why he's in on the conspiracy to get Trump, obviously.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby tinyrick » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:23 pm

Trump tweeting crap Alan Dershowitz says on Fox & Friends. Didn't Dershowitz get famous by defending an obviously guilty client, who was also a beloved public figure, and getting him off by swaying public opinion?
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Absentia » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:28 pm

Trump announces plan to dramatically reduce the protected area around two national monuments in Utah, over the protests of Native American groups and Democrat senator Tom Udall. The land, considered sacred by the Navajo and other nearby tribes, will be auctioned off for oil and gas drilling.

Correction: Could have sworn I saw Udall listed as a Republican.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby iMURDAu » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:38 am

Since I'm part of the public shouldn't I get part of the proceeds of any development on public land? Oh it's not public anymore because some dip gave it away?

COULDN'T WE LOWER TAXES IF WE USED PROCEEDS FROM NATURAL GAS AND OIL SALES TO HELP FUND THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT INSTEAD OF LETTING SOME FUCKS THAT DON'T CARE ABOUT AMERICA BLEED US DRY OF RESOURCES AND RUIN THE LANDSCAPE?

Sorry. I feel like I say that last part a lot. I made it smaller so the yelling wasn't quite so loud.

Lobbyists got our public park land. They're going to get a lot more over the next few years. We will be absolutely powerless in the future to reclaim any of it. Any. Of. It. Anyone still believe he's going to "drain the swamp"?
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:40 am

iMURDAu wrote:Lobbyists got our public park land. They're going to get a lot more over the next few years. We will be absolutely powerless in the future to reclaim any of it. Any. Of. It. Anyone still believe he's going to "drain the swamp"?


30-something percent do, as a matter of fact. If that tax plan isn't going to drive them away, nothing will.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:57 am

Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:
DamianaRaven wrote:Does this amount to an admission of complicity in a justice-obstructing coverup? (I'm no legal expert over here.)


Alright, let's just nip the obstruction thing in the bud because I see it everywhere these days.

The fact of the matter is, if obstruction of justice was the charge to prove, Mueller could spend about one day writing up a report on the firing and attach that interview with Lester Holt where Trump said he fired Comey because of the investigation. It's open and shut--It's obstruction because Trump literally tried to end an investigation by firing the man heading it.

Why Mueller is probably not going that route, however, is because an investigation like this is inherently political and depends on the mood of the country. Obstruction of justice will not fly as a reason for impeachment, even if it should be (indeed, even some publications I respect, like NR, have contributors who talk about the investigation like it's a coup [can't imagine you thought the same about the Lewinsky scandal]) because at the end of the day, the national Republican mood is that it's simply not good enough a reason to impeach a president they're still behind (even though nobody else is). If Mueller were to bring charges of obstruction, Trump would likely pull a Clinton and argue that it's all a partisan-led attack, and probably successfully.

*It's important to note here that I don't agree. There are things I think are of national import to the country and worth impeaching a president for, and a blowjob in the Oval Office is not, in fact, one of them (yes, I know it was for lying under oath, but let's be real, going after him for an affair is pretty silly). Interfering with investigations, however, is.

So it's either Russia or nothing. Any lesser charges (a) will not fly with the GOP or a large majority of Republican voters and (b) will be seen by many people as no better than a coup. Lastly, and let's be honest about this, the GOP will not impeach AND remove him, and I suspect that to be true even if there is a phone call with Trump telling Vladimir Putin to swing the election for him. I don't care if the Democrats win literally every seat open to them on the state and federal level in 2018, they still won't have the votes or political power to do it.

So, as I kinda suspected from the beginning, we're stuck with Trump until 2020.


Well, look at me, looking like an asshole. Judging from the looks of the last few days, it does really seem like Mueller is moving up the obstruction angle. Now I only wonder if Trump will go full Nixon and fire Mueller, and I don't know if he would survive that or not (unfortunately, I suspect he would).
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:55 pm

One might almost feel sorry for "Kremlin Barbie" after this epic social media assbitery.



The replies are just... *winces*
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Krashlia » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:58 pm

Why do I have this image in my mind of Ivanka bearing a weird, wide eyed stepford smile?
Like, why could I imagine a meme with her face on it that goes: Tries not to be an a** on the internet. Receives brutal replies.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby KleinerKiller » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:52 am

This is less specifically Trump being a shithead and more Trump and his buddies collectively being shitheads, but I feel it belongs here for the purposes of sheer incredulity.

The CDC has been handed down from on high a list of seven words and phrases that are now forbidden from being used in certain official documents: "fetus", "transgender", "vulnerable", "entitlement", "diversity", "evidence-based", and "science-based".

In some instances, the analysts were given alternative phrases. Instead of “science-based” or ­“evidence-based,” the suggested phrase is “CDC bases its recommendations on science in consideration with community standards and wishes,” the person said. In other cases, no replacement words were immediately offered.

[...]

At the CDC, the meeting about the banned words was led by Alison Kelly, a senior leader in the agency’s Office of Financial Services, according to the CDC analyst, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak publicly. Kelly did not say why the words are being banned, according to the analyst, and told the group that she was merely relaying the information.

Other CDC officials confirmed the existence of a list of forbidden words.It’s likely that other parts of HHS are operating under the same guidelines regarding the use of these words, the analyst said.

At the CDC, several offices have responsibility for work that uses some of these words. The National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD, and TB Prevention is working on ways to prevent HIV among transgender people and reduce health disparities. The CDC’s work on birth defects caused by the Zika virus includes research on the developing fetus.

The ban is related to the budget and supporting materials that are to be given to the CDC’s partners and to Congress, the analyst said. The president’s budget for 2019 is expected to be released in early February. The budget blueprint is generally shaped to reflect an administration’s priorities.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Australia » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:55 pm

God forbid medicine be science-based.

At least I'm pretty sure God forbid it. Isn't that somewhere in Genesis?
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby iMURDAu » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:00 pm

Nothing says freedom like a list of banned words.
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Grimstone » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:39 am

phpBB [video]
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Re: President Trump makes himself an even BIGGER asshole

Postby Tuli » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:32 am

So this is what the self-proclaimed "anti-PC" crowd are up to these days: banning words.

As for the actual words being banned, I've long known that this administration considers things like research and evidence its mortal enemy... but fetus? What the actual hell? :lol:
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