UK Politics Thread

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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby gisambards » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:40 pm

cmsellers wrote:
gisambards wrote:Final details of what? It's simply incorrect to say that the British people did not have the information required to make the decision whether or not to leave the EU, which is all the referendum was asking.

Well, they didn't. The "Leave" side promised a lot of things which they won't be able to deliver on. When Ms. May is done her negotiations, we'll know exactly which ones they are.

There was a lot of misinformation floating around during the run-up to the referendum, yes (from both camps, it should be pointed out), but that doesn't render the correct information unavailable. Misinformation can get in the way of the facts, but it doesn't stop them from existing.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby RaceProUK » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:23 pm

gisambards wrote:
cmsellers wrote:
gisambards wrote:Final details of what? It's simply incorrect to say that the British people did not have the information required to make the decision whether or not to leave the EU, which is all the referendum was asking.

Well, they didn't. The "Leave" side promised a lot of things which they won't be able to deliver on. When Ms. May is done her negotiations, we'll know exactly which ones they are.

There was a lot of misinformation floating around during the run-up to the referendum, yes (from both camps, it should be pointed out), but that doesn't render the correct information unavailable. Misinformation can get in the way of the facts, but it doesn't stop them from existing.

The problem is people believe the misinformation, and don't do basic research themselves.

Also, hi, I'm new ;)
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby D-LOGAN » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:45 pm

Hi RaceProUK :D , I'm old ... so old ... Music's too loud nowadays!!!
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby CarrieVS » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:47 pm

Hi Urchin! I know RacePro from my other forum.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby sunglasses » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:49 pm

CarrieVS wrote:Hi Urchin! I know RacePro from my other forum.


Oh good, then telling them not to wear anything flammable while reading the forum in a welcome PM was acceptable. Whew.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby Marcuse » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:24 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39393213

Douglas Carswell, the only UKIP MP, has decided that he's leaving the party to sit as an independent MP. This is largely due to a publicised feud between him and Nigel Farage who called for him to be removed for "actively working against UKIP". This is rumoured to be because Carswell argued against a knighthood (or peerage?) for Farage, though he obviously denies this.

Arron Banks, the (now former I think) UKIP donor tweeted a smiley face and a green tick in response to the news. However, he's gone off to fund his own "UKIP 2.0" so I don't know how much this will bring things together. Weirdly, there doesn't seem to be anything in the story from Paul Nuttall, which for a party leader to have no relevance to the resignation of his only MP seems odd.

One of Carswell's reasons for leaving (though I highly suspect insincerity in his public reasoning), was that UKIP won. It's purpose is over because Britain is leaving the EU. I think this will probably be the most damaging thing he could have said about the party, because he's claiming they're a spent political force he wants nothing to do with. I think he might, for all his hidden rationale, be correct.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby RaceProUK » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:37 pm

It does seem like UKIP is slowly disintegrating. Unfortunately, they've already damaged UK politics, and the repercussions will be felt for a long time yet.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby gisambards » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:48 pm

There's rather an odd situation brewing between us and Spain, where, as is too often the case with incidents involving British overseas holdings, I feel like we're getting a bit of an unfair rap:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39475127
As you may or may not know, following the end of the British Empire Britain does still own pockets of territory abroad - as is the case with most other former imperial powers. One of these is Gibraltar, a city on the southern coast of the Iberian Peninsula which was ceded to us in 1713. However, since the Franco era there has been a concerted Spanish desire to see Gibraltar returned to Spain. The vast majority of Gibraltarians - as has been confirmed in referendums - consider themselves British and absolutely want to remain under British rule, but this isn't important to the Spanish, nor to the number of British people who - as is also true with the Falklands - seem to feel we should give Gibraltar to Spain despite them having no legitimate claim to it and against the wishes of its inhabitants, presumably out of some sort of guilt for the days of the empire.

The current flashpoint is that the EU are demanding that any Brexit negotiations involving Gibraltar have to be run past Spain - a suggestion the Gibraltarians are appalled by, and which is simply ridiculous: Spain actually have as much of a claim to Gibraltar as, for example, Mexico does to California. But this situation has been made worse by Lord Howard, a former leader of the Conservatives, saying that Theresa May would be prepared to defend Gibraltar as much as Thatcher was the Falklands. This is of course over-the-top, but the Spanish government and other British parties have rounded on it as if the daft ramblings of a former party leader somehow represent the thinking of the current government.

But this does have a similarity to the Falklands, in that it is appalling the number of British people who feel comfortable saying that it's somehow imperialist for us to want to defend the interests of our people, just because those people happen to live in a territory that another country has a weak claim to. People in Scotland and Wales say they don't get enough support from Westminster, but I think one really has to be a resident of somewhere like Gibraltar or the Falklands to see just how little of a shit some of our politicians are willing to give about those citizens that live a long way away, that they would actually suggest completely taking away your sovereignty and forcing you to become a citizen of a country you don't want to be, for the sake of some vague and ill-informed notion of historical guilt.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby CarrieVS » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:27 am

It's precisely because of the shameful way Europeans (in particular the British, but let's not pretend we were the only nation with an empire *cough*South America*cough*) treated other nations in the past that I'm so certain that Gibraltar (and the Falklands) should remain British.

I am vehemently against colonialism and I think it has no place in this day and age, and as a nation of former colonists I feel we have a particular responsibility to not be a part of anything like that again - and even to defend, so far as is reasonable, nations that are being so oppressed. Hence, it's unquestionably wrong to accept or allow Spain to take possession of a territory, even if it happens to be geographically close, when the vehemently and repeatedly expressed opinion of the people who live there and have done for many generations is overwhelmingly that they are not Spanish, nor do they want to be.

I don't give a damn about the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht. If I was transported back to the 18th century (with a 21st century outlook) when Gibraltar actually was Spanish I would oppose its being ceded to Britain. If its people had come to identify as Spanish and wished to be Spanish I would be in favour of its return (but it would have been returned, so that would be fine). But having been populated by people who are with few exceptions happily British for centuries, the idea that it should be returned, to avoid colonialism, makes about as much sense as it would to suggest that every Brit with a Norman surname should go back to France.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby cmsellers » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:14 am

So apparently your very excellent Prime Minister attacked the National Trust over a fake news story that suggested they dropped the word "Easter" from their Easter egg hunt. Now that Trump's definitively won the War on Christmas, it appears that thin-skinned Christian identitarians need new windmills to tilt at.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby RaceProUK » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:44 am

cmsellers wrote:So apparently your very excellent Prime Minister attacked the National Trust over a fake news story that suggested they dropped the word "Easter" from their Easter egg hunt.

Cadbury's, but yeah, that's the gist of it.

What we've learned from this is that putting the word 'Easter' in big letters on all your ads and using it 15 times on the promotional webpage is insufficient. It must be the only word on the ad, bigger than the ad itself, and it must also be on the webpage 567265487 times in equally big letters, with only four other words used and rendered at 0pt.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby Marcuse » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:25 am

In other news, Mark Reckless, the excellently named UKIP Welsh AM, has defected back to the Conservatives. He was the other MP (along with Douglas Carswell) who defected to UKIP from the Conservatives a few years ago. He now sits as an "independent" AM, but takes the Tory whip and will be described as a Tory in official designations.

This completes the extraction of what I am almost entirely convinced was a pair of Tory plants in UKIP. Both of them have left following the triggering of Article 50, and presumably because everyone knows UKIP is collapsing now their electoral threat is passed.
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby RaceProUK » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:14 am

Another day, another election hacking story:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fo ... ar-BBzJylQ
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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby D-LOGAN » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:12 am

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Re: UK Politics Thread

Postby Marcuse » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:45 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39658427

Fun and goings on in the Unite Union. They recently fought their leadership election between the pro-Corbyn Len McLusky, and the moderate Gerard Coyne. McLusky was in the shit a little while ago for being overheard conversing about the possibility of paying the donations they normally pay to Labour straight to Momentum, the unelected pressure group that surrounds Corbyn.

Now the union has suspended Coyne over "defamatory" statements he has supposedly made against McLusky. It honestly looks like a way to fix the election at the last minute. I can't think of a reason to suspend someone running for leader over simple statements they've made otherwise.
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