Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Kivutar » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:15 pm

Influence or no influence, the woman was unconscious. Maybe this guy claims (dubiously IMO) that she was conscious when they started and passed out in the middle, but you know what you do when someone passes out? You call 911. You don't keep doing whatever you are doing, you especially don't mess around with their body, and you definitely don't flee the scene when someone else comes along. If someone passes out in your presence, the only ethical thing to do is to make them comfortable and/or get medical attention.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Grimstone » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:28 pm

I just want to make clear that my posts weren't about the original topic, in case that's what anyone thought.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:30 am

Grimstone wrote:
Crimson847 wrote:*It depends on how extreme the influence on relevant abilities is. Like reflexes, coordination, and reaction time when driving, or judgment and concentration when signing a contract.


Imagine a person who is really happy and energetic, is this how they normally are or are they under the extreme influence of some drug? How easy would it be for you to tell?


What does this have to do with what I said? Being happy and energetic in and of itself doesn't make someone meaningfully less able to perform a task, unless the task is moping I suppose.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Grimstone » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:27 am

Crimson847 wrote:What does this have to do with what I said? Being happy and energetic in and of itself doesn't make someone meaningfully less able to perform a task


No, but a manic person would probably think/make decisions/etc much differently than if they were depressed for example. So if this manic/depressive/whatever state is drug induced does it not considerably alter their judgement even though they can still competently perform their usual tasks?
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:17 am

Grimstone wrote:
Crimson847 wrote:What does this have to do with what I said? Being happy and energetic in and of itself doesn't make someone meaningfully less able to perform a task


No, but a manic person would probably think/make decisions/etc much differently than if they were depressed for example. So if this manic/depressive/whatever state is drug induced does it not considerably alter their judgement even though they can still competently perform their usual tasks?


Mania is not the same as being happy and energetic. If someone took 100mg of ecstasy, for instance (which would cause some symptoms broadly similar to those of mania, like positivity to the point of delusion and uncontrollable energy), they would indeed be severely impaired, and would be considered intoxicated per the law.

By contrast, if a depressed person takes an antidepressant, changing their emotional state and consequently their behavior is pretty much the whole point, and if the result of the treatment is that they become "happy and energetic", so much the better. This would not be considered legal intoxication in such a case and I don't think it should be, because if anything the drug is improving the person's ability to function at these kinds of tasks, rather than severely detracting from it as a recreational dose of ecstasy would.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Grimstone » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:52 am

It's easy to say a person is intoxicated if they are on x drug, but it's not always so easy to tell(as if it were so simple as "person takes x drug they get y symptoms").

Spoiler: show
Mania is not the same as being happy and energetic. If someone took 100mg of ecstasy, for instance (which would cause some symptoms broadly similar to those of mania, like positivity to the point of delusion and uncontrollable energy), they would indeed be severely impaired


1) I was just using manic in a general descriptive sense. 2) Mania isn't always that bad, it comes in varying degrees.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:41 pm

So, this exists.
Image
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby cmsellers » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:27 pm

Ericthebearjew wrote:So, this exists.
Spoiler: show
Image

I feel like that's got to be satirical. Pretty much much every single sentence seems designed either to offend or point out the sexual innuendo in the hashtag. There's not a word wasted.

And yet it's not out of line with anything the rapist Brock Turner's friends and parents said, and if it turns out someone in the rapist Brock Turner's family wrote this, I wouldn't be surprised.

So if it is satire does that make it good satire or bad satire? I'm not quite sure. Usually a key point of satire is that it's clearly identifiable as satire. But in this case, this post seems to distill the tone-deaf, entitled cluelessness of the rapist Brock Turner's friends and family down into a single perfect post. It is sublimely outrageous.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:39 am

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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby KleinerKiller » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:58 am

Just as predicted.

I sure hope his poor little rapist heart wasn't damaged by those three months in isolated luxury jail.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Marcuse » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:05 am

KleinerKiller wrote:Just as predicted.

I sure hope his poor little rapist heart wasn't damaged by those three months in isolated luxury jail.


The better news is that legislation has been passed to the state governor to close the loophole of sexual assaults with no resistance being given significantly lower sentences. Also, the judge who handed down the sentence has effectively retired from criminal cases, choosing to transfer to a different area of law. I find that less good because it's essentially a result of media attention and harassment, rather than some feeling that the wrong decision was made.

Either way, hopefully there's some respite for the next Emily Doe.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:10 am

Just what we need, more minimum sentencing laws.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Absentia » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:28 am

aviel wrote:Just what we need, more minimum sentencing laws.


I'm not familiar with the specific law in question, but in general I'm less sympathetic to the plight of rapists than the nonviolent drug offenders that are usually presented as evidence of why minimum sentences are bad.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:37 am

One common argument against over-incarceration and the overbroad statutes that encourage it is precisely that it leaves fewer resources for dealing with "real threats to society" like rapists, murderers, and rapist murderers.

(Uhh, by that I mean people who rape and murder, not someone who murders rapists)


At any rate, I'd want to know what specific numbers we're talking about here (i.e. did this loophole lower the average sentence for sexual assaults in that category from 8 to 2 years, or 14 to 7 years, or what?), and if the loophole would have applied in this case (did California really treat "s/he didn't resist" as a mitigating factor in cases with an unconscious victim? If so, wow).


On the face of it though, dispensing with the idea that rape is less severe if the woman doesn't resist seems like a good idea regardless.
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Re: Convicted rapist sentenced to 6 months in prison

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:09 am

Absentia wrote:I'm not familiar with the specific law in question, but in general I'm less sympathetic to the plight of rapists than the nonviolent drug offenders that are usually presented as evidence of why minimum sentences are bad.

Sure, and less sympathy is certainly warranted. But unfortunately, mandatory minimum sentences aren't just a problem with nonviolent drug offenses. Even taking all drug offenses off the table, we have substantially longer sentences for violent crime than most other countries do. And though a nontrivial portion of our prison population comprises nonviolent drug offenders, to completely tackle our overincarceration issue, we'd need to reduce sentences for violent crimes as well.

Crimson847 wrote:On the face of it though, dispensing with the idea that rape is less severe if the woman doesn't resist seems like a good idea regardless.


I'd tend to agree with this, but the solution should probably cut more in favor of dropping the floor for sentencing of rapes where the victim did resist than raising the floor for ones where she did. Obviously you want similar sentences for similarly situated convicts. But ideally the criminal justice system should be designed such that a situation like Brock Turner happens more often than a situation in which someone is forced by law to be punished far more harshly than necessary. And we're definitely erring on the latter side currently, not the former.
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