ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby D-LOGAN » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:48 pm

Really? No one else is going to step up and say it? Really? Yez are all leaving it to me again? Fine!

Let's make one thing, perfectly clear, this, ALL OF THIS, is about one thing- Misandry! Yeah, yeah, tinfoil hat time, I know. But you know I'm right. This is all about people who were born biologically male using the women's toilets. That's what it's about! Don't tell me it's also about people who were born biologically female using the men's toilets, don't even pretend that! There's no outrage over that! There isn't.

You see, transwomen have committed the greatest sin of all, being born physically male! And for that they must be held accountable. Doesn't matter if they don't identify as men, doesn't matter if they're not even visually recognisable as male in any shape make or form, they were born with dude parts and that fact's a stain you can't wash off.

If I'm wrong, why isn't there as much uproar about transwomen using the lad's jacks? Because SOCIETY doesn't want any type of male, even if the only "male" thing about them is the condition of their birth that has no part of who they are today, using the same restroom as the women-folk. Sure that'd be like lettin' a wolf inta the hen-house. You know why?

Cause men= bad. Any type of "man". Even if it's the only thing that considers them "men". You see SOCIETY hates us, always has. That's why it's always sent us off to the meat-grinder of war, that's why it lets so man of our brothers go homeless on the street. We disgust it. But it hasn't got the guts to come at us face to face. So, it goes after the ones close to us- the transwomen. They're being punished because of it's hatred for us. "They're close enough" is it's basic attitude to all this.

And yeah, I'm well aware that a lot of this Misandric-SOCIETY stuff is being done by our fellow men to us, but that proves or changes what exactly? There'll always be Quislings.

What I don't get though is, why does it hate us so much? Why? I mean, it's not like we just turned up yesterday and it doesn't like the look of us. We've been here since day one for crying out loud.

WHAT DID WE EVER DO TO YOU TO EARN YOUR CONTEMPT SOCIETY?
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:00 pm

It's because of what you did to that Chicken, Logan.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby D-LOGAN » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:02 pm

That chicken knew what it was getting into when it got into the van!
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Kate » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:18 pm

This is a bad law. I'm glad it'll probably die soon.

That said, I'm going to quote this...not to pick on Absentia but because it kind of illustrates my "I can't even" about this whole damn issue.

Absentia wrote: Let me say that again: They were so upset that somebody with a penis might use a women's bathroom that they couldn't even wait a couple of weeks for the regular session...


Well...yeah. What is the point of having a woman's restroom and a men's restroom? If it was someone with a penis who identified as male using the women's restroom, would that be problematic? Would it be understandable that some women would be uncomfortable with that? If that's understandable, then of course people who don't recognize trans women as women are upset that somebody with a penis might use a women's bathroom, because to them it is the same thing. To a lot of women and men, as unfortunate as it may be, this is how they feel; that's kind of the problem with saying the only thing that matters is someone's comfort when using the restroom, because it really is championing your ideology to say that it's okay for trans women to be uncomfortable using a men's restroom but not okay for cis women to be uncomfortable with what they see as men using the women's restroom (but of course it's about more than comfort; when a trans woman is told she cannot use the women's restroom, she is being told she is not a woman, and that goes beyond comfort).

I don't give a crap who uses what restroom. I would love the ability to go use the men's restroom when there's a long line for the women's room because I don't consider a public restroom to be a particularly safe space regardless of the plumbing of its occupants and anyone who does isn't paranoid enough. But for people who see a need for gender segregated restrooms, someone of the opposite gender being in the restroom with them is going to make them uneasy and a lot of people do not recognize trans men as men and trans women as women.

Again. Really stupid law. I hope to God it's struck down soon. Why the government is legislating which bathrooms people use is beyond me, I feel like gendered restrooms are entirely a social thing and I don't see why they have any business getting involved with mallcopping where people pee. But is it really that shocking that people who don't recognize trans women as women and feel the need for gendered bathrooms are severely uncomfortable with "someone with a penis" using the women's restroom?

Actually it'd be interesting to see how many people on TCS feel the need to have gendered restrooms at all. Can't we just desegregate them and be done with it?
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby sunglasses » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:22 pm

Kate wrote:Actually it'd be interesting to see how many people on TCS feel the need to have gendered restrooms at all. Can't we just desegregate them and be done with it?


I'd be for that. Of course I'd like all public restrooms to be single stalled with changing tables as well.

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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:26 pm

...
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Tesseracts » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:34 pm

D-LOGAN wrote:Really? No one else is going to step up and say it? Really? Yez are all leaving it to me again? Fine!

Let's make one thing, perfectly clear, this, ALL OF THIS, is about one thing- Misandry! Yeah, yeah, tinfoil hat time, I know. But you know I'm right. This is all about people who were born biologically male using the women's toilets. That's what it's about! Don't tell me it's also about people who were born biologically female using the men's toilets, don't even pretend that! There's no outrage over that! There isn't.

You see, transwomen have committed the greatest sin of all, being born physically male! And for that they must be held accountable. Doesn't matter if they don't identify as men, doesn't matter if they're not even visually recognisable as male in any shape make or form, they were born with dude parts and that fact's a stain you can't wash off.

If I'm wrong, why isn't there as much uproar about transwomen using the lad's jacks? Because SOCIETY doesn't want any type of male, even if the only "male" thing about them is the condition of their birth that has no part of who they are today, using the same restroom as the women-folk. Sure that'd be like lettin' a wolf inta the hen-house. You know why?

Cause men= bad. Any type of "man". Even if it's the only thing that considers them "men". You see SOCIETY hates us, always has. That's why it's always sent us off to the meat-grinder of war, that's why it lets so man of our brothers go homeless on the street. We disgust it. But it hasn't got the guts to come at us face to face. So, it goes after the ones close to us- the transwomen. They're being punished because of it's hatred for us. "They're close enough" is it's basic attitude to all this.

And yeah, I'm well aware that a lot of this Misandric-SOCIETY stuff is being done by our fellow men to us, but that proves or changes what exactly? There'll always be Quislings.

What I don't get though is, why does it hate us so much? Why? I mean, it's not like we just turned up yesterday and it doesn't like the look of us. We've been here since day one for crying out loud.

WHAT DID WE EVER DO TO YOU TO EARN YOUR CONTEMPT SOCIETY?

This is true, it's a law intended to be anti-trans, yet it also villainizes straight cis men in the process.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:58 pm

Tesseracts wrote:This is true, it's a law intended to be anti-trans, yet it also villainizes straight cis men in the process.

It does make a lot of sense when you take the whole "trans rapist ninja" myth into account. They see what they assume to be a straight cis man sneakily entering the womens' restroom in order to rape women. Because, as all LGBT people are not human, instead being sentient walking sex drives, what else are they going to do in there? It seems like a lot of sexual insecurities are at play here.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Absentia » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:08 pm

Kate wrote: But is it really that shocking that people who don't recognize trans women as women and feel the need for gendered bathrooms are severely uncomfortable with "someone with a penis" using the women's restroom?


My point was that it was a stupid thing to call an emergency session for, rather than wait a couple of weeks for the regular legislative session. Surely it can't be that big of a deal either way.

And for the record I don't have a problem with segregated bathrooms as the social norm, but it's not something worth rigidly enforcing or getting upset about if somebody wants to use the other room as long they aren't there to creep on people.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Kate » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:31 pm

Absentia wrote:
Kate wrote: But is it really that shocking that people who don't recognize trans women as women and feel the need for gendered bathrooms are severely uncomfortable with "someone with a penis" using the women's restroom?


My point was that it was a stupid thing to call an emergency session for, rather than wait a couple of weeks for the regular legislative session. Surely it can't be that big of a deal either way.

And for the record I don't have a problem with segregated bathrooms as the social norm, but it's not something worth rigidly enforcing, particularly when there's a gray area like trans people.

I know, and like I said I'm not quoting it to pick on you, I don't think you said anything wrong or weird. That just kind of frames the problem, right? I can definitely imagine that if this was about allowing cis men to use women's restrooms, they would call an emergency session, assuming that they believe there is a really important reason to have gendered bathrooms. And they see it the same way (ETA: I mean, they see trans women using the women's restroom the same way as they see cis men using the women's restroom). I disagree with them seeing it the same way, but I also don't find this surprising.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Tesseracts » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:44 pm

I find it surprising they are attacking trans people in such a petty way. I understand in their mind it may be a safety issue but it's baffling that legislators suffer from such a profound lack of empathy and foresight. I wouldn't doubt many are motivated by sheer disgust rather than altruism also.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:28 am

Kate wrote:Actually it'd be interesting to see how many people on TCS feel the need to have gendered restrooms at all. Can't we just desegregate them and be done with it?

Not only can we desegregate them, the Constitution requires that we do. The logic that we can create "separate but equal" facilities on the basis of suspect classification was pretty firmly rejected in Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483 (1954). Gender segregated bathrooms are basically like having "In God We Trust" on everything; it's obviously unconstitutional, but people are too used to it, and it doesn't cause enough harm for courts to have scrutinized it seriously.
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Absentia » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:36 am

NC's attorney general (a Democrat) says he won't defend the law against the ACLU's suit. Mainly because he wants it repealed, and presumably also because he doesn't want to look like an idiot.

“Not only is this new law a national embarrassment, it will set North Carolina’s economy back if we don’t’ repeal it,” Cooper said. “We know that businesses here and all over the country have taken a strong stance in opposition to this law.”
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:49 am

Jack Road wrote:Your sarcasm is amusing, however, as Windy is either deliberately confrontational or mentally challenged, it might end with him being confused. Please use caution.


...what the fuck.

Bad form. These kind of insults are unnecessary.

Back on topic, though...

I'd have no problem making all bathrooms co-ed. Cut the Gordian knot all at once. Plus, no more arguments about whose restrooms are messier.

(except it's totally women's bathrooms, guys. I had to clean up that shit when I worked in a restaurant. It's a war zone.)
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Re: ACLU Files Complaint Against Discriminatory NC Law

Postby cmsellers » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:44 am

sunglasses wrote:
Kate wrote:Actually it'd be interesting to see how many people on TCS feel the need to have gendered restrooms at all. Can't we just desegregate them and be done with it?


I'd be for that. Of course I'd like all public restrooms to be single stalled with changing tables as well.

A world of single-occupancy restrooms would be awesome but hideously expensive, I imagine.

That said, my undergraduate institution had a lot of unisex bathrooms, and I was totally fine with it. You go in, do your business while studiously ignoring everybody else, wash your hands, and get out. Just like normal restrooms.

But Logan's right that it's about so many women being uncomfortable with men in the same restroom.

My alma mater has had a longstanding war between trans/queer/genderquestioning students and a dedicated female opposition over bathroom usage. Female employees persuaded administrators to keep one bathroom in the building as female-only, and trans students lobbied for years to convert that one as well (to be fair, it was the only bathroom on the library's first floor), finally succeeding after I graduated. Meanwhile, during the time I was there I saw some officially officially unisex bathrooms graffitied with "women only!!!" and similar slogans, and a set of formerly unisex bathrooms semi-officially resegregated.

Of course my undergraduate alma mater was its own little world. In many places, you still see gender-segregated single-stall bathrooms, which makes no fucking sense.
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