VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:41 pm

Do you have any actual evidence for any of what you're saying? I'm not just going to take assertions like that from you on faith, I'm afraid.

I tried to work out what you meant by Illinois Nazi story, but I don't see how the one I assume you're referring to (Arthur Jones) has anything to do with this.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:01 pm

You think there are polls out already? Because I'm talking about all the elected dems trying to get him to fuck off. That's not a statistic. Although it's probably a result of internal polling.

I'm saying do you think the Illinois nazi convinced any republican that their party supports nazis? Do you somehow dispute that that's the intention of the newspeople putting out the story? (not that it matters even a little bit since that's the effect, to reinforce the dems' idea that their opposition is nazis)
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Just so you know, you have now reached that point where your points are so incoherent that I'm probably going to stop responding. I don't understand what point you're trying to make regarding Northam's popularity among Virginia Democrats before this, and frankly I'm not convinced you do either. And yes, the Arthur Jones thing almost certainly probably did harm the local Republican Party's standing in his district of Illinois (and actually, Arthur Jones really was an abhorrent person that many local Republicans were angered by, so him being revealed as such is hardly an example of news media spinning something unfairly for political gain). Not everything is a conspiracy, and it's frankly concerning that you seem to approach everything, down to state-level politics, as if it is.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:31 pm

I've already said there's literally nothing that'll convince you because your definition of bad contains the condition "if a party I oppose supports him/her". You have literally responded to "Hey look you lied about Tim Hunt" with "I was just 19". You've literally called the editorialized versions of news news and the direct quote the editorialized version. (And *I* have a low bar for conspiracies) You've literally defended CNN for faking a protest. You have a tenous relationship with ethics at best.

There was nothing that was ever going to convince any of you that you were wrong. Your need to project these failings of yours on me is fucking hilarious.

Here's something to think about (you won't). Northam resigning just turned from a bad thing (because it'd be giving in to those horrible pro-lifers) to a good thing (THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WILL NOT TOLERATE RACISTS), and you don't suspect some form of narrative control is in effect here. How fucking ridiculous is that? It's not like you're not cynical, somehow you've figured out Corbyn is antisemetic, for example. It's prooooobably because you don't even know what you're properly defending.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Tesseracts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:41 pm

I would like to remind everyone of the rules. It’s not okay to attack people on a personal level. It’s also not okay for this discussion to be about the details of Covington or about abortion policy. The thread was created to discuss a yearbook photo. I’m locking it for at least 24 hours and if we decide to open it again I’ll leave it up to the discretion of the OP to decide if something Notham said about infants is relevant to the topic.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Tesseracts » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:47 am

The thread is unlocked and the OP decided the discussion of Northam's baby comments is relevant to the thread. I hope any subsequent discussion attempts to give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:09 pm

Kate wrote:The problem here is very clearly me, not anyone else.


Bollocks; I was rude to you first, and I'm sorry for that. What conservative media are doing isn't on you.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Absentia » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:38 pm

Virginia Attorney General admits that he ALSO wore blackface to a party dressed as a musician. (He was 19.)

What the fuck was going on at parties around here in the 80's?
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby cmsellers » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:51 pm

There's blackface, as in a white person putting on makeup to look black. And then there's blackface, as in the racist caricatures of black people used in minstrel shows. Herring did the first, Northam did the second.

Now, making yourself up to look like a black person is wrong, and it calls to mind the other kind of blackface, which makes it more problematic than other kinds of ethnic makeup, but I'd still argue it's not nearly as bad as the minstrel show blackface.

I also believe that this kind was socially acceptable more recently, in the same way as other kinds of ethnic makeup (hence why Megyn Kelly could be clueless about why it's not acceptable now), whereas minstrel show blackface has been very clearly not OK since the Civil Rights Movement. Between this, and his coming forward, I don't think Herring needs to resign, and it looks like he doesn't think so either, as he apparently admitted it in his call for Northam to resign.

Edit: two typos
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Last edited by cmsellers on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby ghijkmnop » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:52 pm

Redacted
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Last edited by ghijkmnop on Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Absentia » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:56 pm

cmsellers wrote:There's blackface, as in a white person putting on makeup to look bad. And then there's blackface, as in the makeup caricatures of black people used in minstrel shows. Herring did the first, Northam did the second.

Now, making yourself up to look like a black person is wrong, and it calls to mind the other kind of blackface, which makes it more problematic than other kinds of ethnic makeup, but I'd still argue it's not nearly as bad as the minstrel show blackface.

I also believe that this kind was socially acceptable more recently, in the same way as other kinds of ethnic makeup (hence why Megyn Kelly could be clueless about why it's not acceptable now), whereas minstrel show blackface has been very clearly not OK since the Civil Rights Movement. Between this, and his coming forward, I don't think Herring needs to resign, and it looks like he doesn't think so either, as he apparently admitted it in his call for Northam to resign.


1) Northam still swears up and down that it's not him in the photo, so the only "confirmed" blackface incident with him is dressing up as Michael Jackson.

2) Nobody, and I mean nobody, in the media is going to make that distinction out loud.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:55 pm

This whole situation is not all that farfetched if you think about it. Yeah, the parties flipped ideologies in the 1960s, but that kind of sentiment doesn't disappear overnight. Hell, Cindy Hyde-Smith was a registered democrat until 2010.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Absentia » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:47 pm

Herring was something like 8 years old when Tricky Dick implemented the Southern Strategy. I don't think the old school Southern Dems had that much influence on him.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:30 pm

The man, no, but certainly the policy. It was a time when pro-redlining sentiment was still debated on the house floor, for example. Private schools were being set up to bypass racial integration.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Aquila89 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 pm

cmsellers wrote:I also believe that this kind was socially acceptable more recently, in the same way as other kinds of ethnic makeup (hence why Megyn Kelly could be clueless about why it's not acceptable now), whereas minstrel show blackface has been very clearly not OK since the Civil Rights Movement.


Yeah. Even in the early 2000s, Jimmy Fallon used blackface to play Chris Rock on SNL, and Jimmy Kimmel did the same to play Karl Malone on The Man Show. A white person using make-up to play a famous black person was acceptable then to some degree - definitely not career-ending. So I don't think Herring should resign for doing the same (he was impersonating the rapper Kurtis Blow) in 1980, when he was 19.

Meanwhile, ieutenant governor Justin Fairfax has been accused of sexual assault. If the Northam, Fairdax and Herring all resign, the Speaker of the House of Delegates will become governor - and he's a Republican.
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