VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Kate » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:06 am

Fuck it, I'm done. Be biased, take me out of context because of your pre-existing ideas about me, have fun with that. Wonder why actual conservatives avoid TCS like the plague, it's a mystery!

The moment I mentioned the context of the gaffe, it doesn't matter that I was specific that what he said had nothing to do with the legislation, it became stoooopid prolifers think he said infanticide but this bill isn't infanticide stooopid durrrrrrrrrr and I am done, I am enough of an alien everywhere else in life, I don't need that in my leisure as well.

Feel free to show me where I said anything about how legislation, either proposed or existing, would support this. Oh wait, I didn't! Wow, imagine that. It's almost like I'm not some brainwashed idiot taking all of my views from conservative talking heads and people who see things differently might be more complex than that, wow. What a concept.

Eta: Oh well, yeah, clearly a little offended. Sure, I will happily leave it here.

ETA 2: and I am sorry, I should not have this level of rage aimed at you, you aren't trying to be condescending or lecturing or even trying to take things out of context, you clearly don't mean to essentially react to me with "person with X view must clarify thing she has already clarified from the start because other people with x view are stupid
and believe this and I need to know she isn't stupid" but that is very much how it reads to me right now, and I am tired of it, and saying essentially "you must agree with my view" did not put me in a friendly mood. The problem here is very clearly me, not anyone else. And I am gone. I apologize for lashing out at you, you don't deserve that.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby Absentia » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:15 am

For the record I do not think you're stupid. I don't think pro-life people are necessarily stupid (or that pro-choice people are necessarily smart). It's a question with no good answers and I try not to judge anyone for having a different feeling about it than me. Maybe I do a shitty job of that, I dunno. But I don't want to fight about it and I don't want to push anyone away.

And now, so help me, I will endeavor to never discuss abortion on this forum again, because this is what fucking happens.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:36 am

This debate didn't even have to actually be about abortion, though. You insisting that her views on abortion are why Kate interpreted Northam's words a certain way did that. I'm not opposed to abortion, but I can still admit that he said what he said, even if it's clearly not what he meant. I really don't understand why this had to get dragged out at all, and certainly not why anyone feels like it has to actually be about people's views on abortion.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:23 pm

This debate is about abortion because abortion is where this debate comes from. You know why Kate brought it up?

Because somehow people managed to go five posts without bringing up the infanticide comments in an incident defined by the infanticide comments. It's a blatantly transparent whitewash of everything that happened, which is clear from Crimson and Absentia's instant response being "fake news!". How offensive is it to not listen to a word she's saying and say "well I'm right in the end and I'm glad we all agree". Because that's what "I'm glad we both agree this is fake news" means.

How hard is it to say "Sorry, seeing the infanticide word triggered my CONSERVATIVES ARE WRONG reflexes and I didn't mean to misrepresent you". How hard is it to acknowledge the fact that conservatives misrepresented nothing and just used the fact that he was endorsing infanticide as a jumping point to criticize the bill, which is and has always been the focus because it is literally about making it easier to callously murder babies in the womb. How hard is it to admit you didn't read the conservative viewpoint in the first place?

Why the fuck do you think you can somehow apologize to Kate without backing the fuck off on misrepresenting her? Do you think she agrees with you that conservatives are wrong by default? Do you think she agrees with you that abortion's not worth talking about? Do you think you're being neutral here by mindlessly repeating the anti-pro-life smear?

Have you figured out why people are fucking furious yet, three pages in?

Because somehow Sellers managed to make this thread about how virtuous dems are for getting rid of fuckface, directly giving in to the dems' blatant fucking misdirection on the late term abortion bill. You've somehow convinced yourself the racism is the main reason he's in hot water, how fucking disgusting is that? Being disgusted by late term abortions is not fucking controversial, like 15% of democrats agree with it. And yet somehow that's not the story. I mean, you literally didn't even fucking know the story considering you were still talking about it as if dems weren't trying to legalize elective late term abortions. You're letting your ignorance of pro-life views let you decide what's important. Did you know late term abortions being elective isn't a fucking myth? Kate does. How's that for context? Do you wanna figure out why pro-lifers are angry yet?

An actual baby has more awareness than you people because atleast it can keep two things in its head at the same time without maliciously slandering someone.

And to prove my point, your response to this is almost definitely going to be to accuse me of being angry because I'm conservative or pro-life instead of angry because of how this shitheap of a site treats any views that aren't liberal orthodox.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby IamNotCreepy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:43 pm

I understand this is a heated topic, but please refrain from insulting other members.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:14 pm

To be clear, racism is where the real storm has come from. The racism scandal - which is the actual topic of the thread - really is not "defined" by the abortion gaffe, even if they are causally linked. I'd never heard of Ralph Northam before the racism scandal, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was true of most people. Some governors have quite high profiles, but from what I can tell Northam didn't particularly until this latest scandal. I think it's beyond unfair to malign people for talking about the racism scandal and not the abortion gaffe, and to act like that was done as part of an intentional diabolical effort to whitewash the abortion gaffe is frankly paranoid (particularly your bizarre accusation aimed at sellers, who absolutely was not trying "to make this thread about how virtuous dems are for getting rid of [Northam], directly giving in to the dems' blatant [...] misdirection on the late term abortion bill" - firstly, sellers' OP is very measured and considers both angles to the racism debate, and secondly there's absolutely nothing wrong with only focusing on the racism debate; while they are linked, the racism scandal doesn't actually need the abortion gaffe brought in for context and can absolutely be legitimately discussed on its own terms - it is a scandal with an interesting debate at its heart in its own right).

And to prove my point, your response to this is almost definitely going to be to accuse me of being angry because I'm conservative or pro-life instead of angry because of how this shitheap of a site treats any views that aren't liberal orthodox.

In this instance I think you do have a legitimate grievance, even if it is expressed in an entirely unnecessarily obnoxious way, but I think it's fair to say you're mostly angry for the same reasons you always seem to be angry - your assumption of malicious intent on the part of anyone who even slightly disagrees with you, and frustration that people don't really want to engage with your arguments, whilst ignoring that that's entirely down to the consistently aggressive and usually fairly incoherent way you've expressed them.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:17 pm

You're right, Kate was engaged because she was polite. How long do you think the anger excuse is gonna last?

Do you think at some point I'm going to say "You're right, I shouldn't be so angry at disingenousness"?

Hey remember the last time I kept insisting someone was misinterpreted and they burned out?

Good thing you got together and decided you did nothing wrong later on.
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Last edited by A Combustible Lemon on Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.


WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:22 pm

As I said, you do have a legitimate point here, but you've expressed it in exactly the same way you've expressed a lot of illegitimate points and unnecessary insults towards people in the past, and continued to do to sellers, who can't rationally be considered to have done anything wrong, here. There really is no reasonable argument for this level of aggression.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:23 pm

What rational basis is there for any amount of aggression?

And you guys keep coming back to "there's no vast liberal conspiracy". What a completely useless statement that's entirely ignorant of the context of the story.

I've been following this story from its inception. Dems were deliberately silent on the issue when it started because they were formulating a good response to the gaffe.

The pictures were leaked by his classmates who were angry at his defence of the changes and his apparent approval of infanticide. The story before the pictures were leaked is still out there, it's "Conservatives pounce" and "Until today, Tran was famous for babbies, now the mean conservatives are calling her a baby killer!" and "GOVERNOR NORTHAM DID NOTHING WRONG, LOOK AT HIS PRESS RELEASE WHERE HE CONTRADICTS WHAT HE SAID".

Repeatedly on being asked for comment, they all said the exact same thing "I haven't heard what he said yet".

Funnily enough, the second those headlines out there came out, the comments flowed freely, talking about how he was misrepresented.

Then, finally, at the end of this outrage cycle, after it was known for sure dems were going to let this go, then, the stupid pictures came out and they didn't have a leg to stand on and it became obvious dems will stand for infanticide but not for blackface.

That's the story. The fact that you heard it from the dem side first is no excuse whatsoever, especially after saying "broaden your sources" as a response to me pointing out pretty much every source is completely illegitimate.

So when some fuckface in the news tries to tell you conservatives are lying when they say he's not facing consequences for his actions, guess which fucking actions the majority of media muppets think they're talking about? Do you still think this wasn't fucking coordinated?

Note I'm not invested in convincing you about this because I know you're not interested in taking responsibility for dishonesty at all, and have literally defended CNN fabricating a protest in the past, so you have no real standards whatsoever. I'm just waiting to see how you guys keep twisting. I mean, two months after I pointed out the media keeps trying to destroy people and you guys "defended" it by ignoring 90% of what I said, the media literally tried to get a bunch of kids killed or maimed so they wouldn't need to report on the march for life. Now here's the fun bit, try to defend the media by saying that's not what they intended while keeping in mind the fact that for the last 5 years they've been equating internet harassment to murder and anonymous bad behaviour to the legitimacy of a political argument.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:02 pm

In a debate on the internet, I don't think there's any real rational basis for aggression.

The part of your post about it being coordinated really doesn't add up. The idea that the racism scandal is being used to somehow cover-up a minor gaffe he made in an interview is genuine, detached-from-reality nonsense. The racism scandal has potentially really hurt Virginia Democrats' reputation among one of their key demographics. Why would they find that the preferable story to the abortion gaffe, which was clearly a misspeak and which only cost them support among people who weren't voting for them anyway?
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:03 pm

Because late-term abortion has no real support in any demographic. The gaffe being the story was a misdirection in the first place.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11227&start=15#p275774
This is the story. This is what everything started from. Pay close attention to the bit where French is talking about the press release. Now compare that statement to what Kate said first.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:08 pm

So Virginia Democrats are so desperate to get a late-term abortion bill passed unnoticed that they would severely damage their own standing among one of their key demographics just to provide a cover?
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:09 pm

What damage? As sellers shows, literally no one cares, in fact they're happy they get another Al Franken to throw around.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby gisambards » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:28 pm

First of all, a major component of the Franken story was how reticent many Democrats were to call for Franken's resignation even after evidence piled up and several Republicans and a black Democrat had had to resign for the same thing, so the idea that he was some sort of scapegoat or sacrificial lamb is just wrong.

But the racism scandal has almost certainly done damage to Virginia Democrats. Northam was elected in the wake of Charlottesville, among record-high black turnout to vote for him. As Vann Newkirk argues in The Atlantic, he was seen as explicitly closing a door on the white supremacy issues Virginia has long contended with, which his opponents were seen as buying into. So for him to suddenly have something like this in his past - and for him to be not taking it at all seriously, and particularly his refusal to resign - has almost certainly done damage to the party's reputation in the state.
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Re: VA Gov Northam yearbook page had blackface, KKK outfit

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:30 pm

He doesn't have democratic support in VA. You're arguing against yourself here, Dems are seen as wanting to get rid of him but unable. This is the opposite of a problem for Dems. How many republicans were convinced by the Illinois Nazi story?
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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