Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

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Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:03 am

A gunman armed with an AR-15 and several handguns opened fire in Pittsburgh's Tree of Life Congregation synagogue this morning, killing at least 11 people and wounding at least 6 others (including four police officers) while shouting anti-Semitic slurs. The gunman, Robert D. Bowers, surrendered and was arrested after barricading himself inside the building.

Bowers was an avowed anti-Semite who had left numerous posts on alt-right social network Gab, including threats toward Jewish nonprofit HIAS for planning a shabbat ceremony for refugees around the country. Hours before entering the synagogue, he posted:

“HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”


The Anti-Defamation League is calling it one of the deadliest attacks on the Jewish community in U.S. history.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby ftl » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:23 pm

Apparently, one of the victims was an actual holocaust survivor.

[edit] Apparently not, that was a misidentification. There was holocaust survivor in the synagogue but not among the victims.
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Last edited by ftl on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby AsamiSato » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:32 pm

Remember on Monday when Trump said that it is ok to be a nationalist? Yeah, it looks like some people have taken him at his word. Between this, the mail bombs and the 2 African Americans shot in a Kroger in KY (the shooter reportedly said "whites don't shoot whites" as he was taken in)... things seem to be escalating.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby Anglerphobe » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:07 pm

I saw a comment on a cute dog video with an avatar that was the star of david with a red line through it. I took a look at his YT channel and it is currently full of liked videos claiming the attack was a hoax.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby Aquila89 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:50 pm

AsamiSato wrote:Remember on Monday when Trump said that it is ok to be a nationalist? Yeah, it looks like some people have taken him at his word.


Bowers actually hated Trump, because he though that Trump is controlled by Jews and "a globalist, not a nationalist".

He also believed that the Central American migrant caravan is an invasion organized by the Jews. (Side note: if you replace "Jews" with "Soros", then this is exactly what the Hungarian government and state media is saying right now).
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby AsamiSato » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:36 pm

Aquila89 wrote:
AsamiSato wrote:Remember on Monday when Trump said that it is ok to be a nationalist? Yeah, it looks like some people have taken him at his word.


Bowers actually hated Trump, because he though that Trump is controlled by Jews and "a globalist, not a nationalist".

He also believed that the Central American migrant caravan is an invasion organized by the Jews. (Side note: if you replace "Jews" with "Soros", then this is exactly what the Hungarian government and state media is saying right now).


Yeah, I just saw that. I still think what I said is basically accurate. Even though Bowers has disavowed Trump, he's still nodding along when Trump says things like "I'm a nationalist." He's just adding in his head (to Trump), "You're just not nationalist enough, you just don't have the balls to do what needs to be done." So Trump is still feeding the crazy. Whether or not the crazies like him; the POTUS expressing Nazi-friendly views emboldens people like Bowers who think that Trump isn't extreme enough. It sends a clear message. Ugh.

I am scared to think about how many people actually believe the conspiracy theories about the migrant caravan.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:36 pm

Trump's approach to nationalism is hot garbage, but I don't think it's out-of-bounds to call yourself a nationalist in and of itself. We tend to hear the term mostly in the context of "white nationalism" or discussions of 1930s fascist movements, but in and of itself "nationalism" is simply a preference for nations controlling their own internal affairs as opposed to concentrating power and authority in international institutions. The idea that America should quit playing "world police" and fix its own democracy before trying to prop up others is fundamentally a nationalist one, for instance. Nationalism is only racist if one's conception of the "nation" is based around race or ethnicity, and it need not reflect a hatred of other countries any more than wanting to have a room of one's own reflects hatred of everyone else in the house.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby sunglasses » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:36 am

I'm just fairly numb to this anymore. I just want to scream from the rooftops, "if you keep stroking conspiracy theories and paranoia this is what happens."
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby AsamiSato » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:40 am

Crimson847 wrote: I don't think it's out-of-bounds to call yourself a nationalist in and of itself. We tend to hear the term mostly in the context of "white nationalism" or discussions of 1930s fascist movements, but in and of itself "nationalism" is simply a preference for nations controlling their own internal affairs as opposed to concentrating power and authority in international institutions. The idea that America should quit playing "world police" and fix its own democracy before trying to prop up others is fundamentally a nationalist one, for instance. Nationalism is only racist if one's conception of the "nation" is based around race or ethnicity, and it need not reflect a hatred of other countries any more than wanting to have a room of one's own reflects hatred of everyone else in the house.


I can see what you're saying but I think that ultimately nationalism is probably one of those words that is too "polluted" with its associated meanings in the real world. And also, I think it is especially problematic in America because here nation has always been tied to racialized violence and a wide variety of racist ideas and practices. People of color are not always considered or treated as part of the nation. Not to pull the 'race card' but my great-grandparents learned the hard way when they were put in the internment camps in WWII and lost all their property despite my great grandfather's US military service. And I am routinely assumed to be a foreigner even though my Japanese-American grandparents were born here. So while in an ideal world nationalism wouldn't have to be racist, I think in the real world use of the word/concept it usually is (especially in America, which is the context I know best).

Now an intentionally and explicitly anti-racist nationalism would be an interesting thing to see... but I'm not sure it exists in the real world?
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby cmsellers » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:01 am

Civic nationalism exists, but it's fairly rare. My first thought was Scottish nationalism, which the Wikipedia page mentions, along with Welsh, Corsican, and Catalan nationalism. I think that if Catalan nationalism qualifies, Iraqi Kurdish nationalism and Quebecois nationalism would also qualify, since Catalan, Kurdish, and Quebecois nationalism are all based on language rather than ethnicity. Taiwanese nationalism might also qualify, since it opposes the Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese hegemony of the KMT.

What's notable is that all of these movements are separatist movements, with Welsh nationalists supporting remaining part of both the UK and the EU, and Scottish and Catalan nationalists proposing leaving the UK and Spain but rejoining the EU. This suggests that when civic nationalism succeeds it is likely to become internationalist.

On the other hand, it seems to me like New Zealand First is a fairly successful non-racist nationalist party. Though anti-alliance and anti-immigration, it has drawn its strength disproportionately from Maori New Zealanders. More controversial would be the Party for Freedom (PVV) in the Netherlands, run by Geert Wilders who is hostile to Islam because he believes it is contrary to Dutch values, but not racist, and indeed worked closely with the black ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali. However in both cases, the parties are organized around an other: immigrants for NZF, Muslims and immigrants for PVV.

And you could argue that civic nationalist separatist parties are similar organized around an other, that being the nation they want to separate from. So it seems to me like non-racist nationalism is possible, but an other is always necessary. On the other hand, political parties always seem to other their opponents, so I'm not sure that this makes nationalism unique.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:54 am

Dog whistles and euphemisms aside, I don't understand the hatred of an interconnected 0.8 on the Kaku scale global society. I mean, we have the internet, we consume foreign media and food all the time. To take issue with Globalism is to take issue with the fact that Iphones exist in Ouagadougou, the gas station down the street sells packaged bahn mis, and that one can be vaguely aware of Croatia. It is to demand to be a big fish in a small pond by no other virtue than "I exist and I live in a place". Big whoop, so does everybody else.
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Re: Pittsburgh synagogue shooting leaves 11 dead

Postby Absentia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:50 pm

Bowers made his first court appearance after being discharged from the hospital this morning. He faces 29 federal counts, including hate crime charges, and could get the death penalty if convicted. He waived his right to request bail.

Also of note: Every one of his guns (the four he carried plus six seized at his home) was purchased legally following a federal background check.
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