Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby Marcuse » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:12 pm

sunglasses wrote:Mexico is part of North America. Those seeking asylum are from Central America. They are not from Mexico. They are often from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras.


Maybe I'm being charitable, but there is a legitimate issue with people who claim to be refugees seeking asylum crossing through many countries in order to claim asylum in a place they'd quite like to live in thanks. Really when they hit a safe country and don't claim asylum there, they become economic migrants, and there's a body of opinion (including my own prime minister) that have said that people shouldn't be able to cross an entire continent to be able to claim asylum somewhere purely because it's that place they want to live in.

That said, I'm dubious about the suitability of Mexico to take in large numbers of asylum seekers. While it's not terrible in a Syria or Venezuela kind of way, its got its own troubles and maybe the US is a better place for them. I don't know. What I do know is that it would be more honest to recognise that these people are, for better or worse, economic migrants while crossing through a safe country to reach another one they'd rather settle in and to accept that these people would be better for the US put to work and paying taxes than they would be sat in tent cities on the Mexico border.
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby JamishT » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:50 am

One of my kneejerk, unfounded opinions is that Mexico should step up and be the first world country they claim to be. I have the perception that Mexico is rife with corruption (which shoots themselves in the foot developmentally), but not as bad as other countries in Central America. And it seems like Mexico wants to become or be recognized as a country on the same level as the US, England, and other "first world" countries. I don't know if Mexico has offered/pushed the caravan to stop in Mexico, but I hope they do.

Another kneejerk is that it might be more ideal for the caravan to stop in Mexico because of the lack of language barrier and maybe a little less of a cultural difference?
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby cmsellers » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:56 am

JamishT wrote:I don't know if Mexico has offered/pushed the caravan to stop in Mexico, but I hope they do.

They have, but only if the migrants stay in the two southern states of Oaxaca or Chiapas. Since those are two of the poorest states in Mexico, I'm not sure what there is in the way of work.
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby sunglasses » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:37 pm

Those two states are also the closest to the troubled countries, and relatively easy for gang members to slip into if they wanted.
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby ftl » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:57 pm

Trump says he "wouldn't be surprised" if Soros is funding the caravan. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

He really is trying to make this the scapegoat for everything all at once - Soros, terrorists, mexicans, criminals, whatever his base doesn't like that's what the caravan is.
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby Aquila89 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:35 pm

Asked whether the funder could be Soros, Trump said: “I don’t know who, but I wouldn’t be surprised. A lot of people say yes.”


Oh, look, he's using his favorite source again.
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby 52xMax » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:38 pm

I have strong opinions on this subject, I just don't have the clarity to straight up all my thoughts concisely, so be warned about the incoming stream of consciousness rant ahead.

Suffice to say this has been a controversial subject in my country, and between the outgoing and incoming administrations they're just playing a game of hot potato with these issues.

While incumbent president Peña Nieto initially deployed troops and federal agents to the border with Guatemala, president elect Lopez Obrador has stayed on the sidelines, stating his moral support for the migrants, but otherwise remaining silent regarding any actions before or after he's sworn into office on December 1st.

Spokespeople for the caravan, meanwhile, have turned down any offers made by the government and calls to dialogue, other than demanding things like shelter, food and even transport while they cross through our country on their way to the US.*

* A couple hundred of those migrants did request asylum within Mexico.

I think a lot of people don't realize that we've been dealing with problems related to central american migrants for a while now, going back to deporter-in-chief Obama's first term, and possibly to Dubya's. It's not a problem with an easy solution, as they come from countries that are even more fucked up than mine in a lot of different ways. But it's impossible to deny that coming here doesn't do much in the way of helping them, and their presence only exacerbates our own problems, while bringing some of their own problems with them wherever they go.

I live in a border city on the northwest, and since most people who come from Central America head straight north towards the northeast, we don't get a lot of these people here. We do have a substantial population of Haitian and Venezuelan refugees, and for the most part they are a net benefit for the community in many different ways as of today, but that took a lot of adjustments. Bringing so many people at once is unsustainable both in short and long runs. Not only is it a logistical nightmare to take them in and would exhaust any resources faster than we could provide, it also draws a lot of attention, and regardless of the political stances of our leaders, it's wont to create discomfort among the general population.

That's assuming they can pass right through to their destination so they can become Trump's problem. That's not very likely to happen, but if it did, it would only encourage further efforts. It's already happening.

Best case scenario, they apply for refugee status in the US, but they still have to stay behind our borders for weeks, or months, or perhaps even longer. There's already big camping sites outside US consulates in cities such as Juarez and Tijuana, packed with hundreds of people requesting entry into the United States in any sort of way. Not to mention the thousands who seek to enter illegally, and those who get deported every day and become homeless.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do the humanitarian thing and help these people while they're here in any way we can, whether they stay or not. I just don't think it's a good idea to encourage them to risk their lives (and compromise ours) if they keep doing this. It needs to stop.

Finally, what motivated me to take the time to comment in the first place
JamishT wrote:Mexico should step up and be the first world country they claim to be.

No one in their right minds would claim we're anywhere close to being a first world country. And if anyone believes it when people say that, get in touch with me. I have a bridge to sell you. It's a pretty good deal too.
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Re: Caravan of Central American migrants head for US border

Postby cmsellers » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:29 am

Mexico isn't a first-world country, but it is an OECD country. This situation reminds me of the EU and Turkey with Syrian refugees. Mexico is the port of first call, and is going to be shouldering a disproportionate share of the burden. But ideally the US would help Mexico with the costs of hosting the refugees, and eventually, Mexico will take a portion of the refugees with valid asylum claims, other developed countries (mainly the US) will take the rest. Unfortunately, Trump is no Merkel, making this solution unlikely.
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