When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a Nazi

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When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a Nazi

Postby cmsellers » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:07 am

So Max shared this story on Discord, and I find it so upsetting that I need to bring it up here. I believe that when we had the thread on Nazi punching sometime back, almost everyone on TCS understood that it is not acceptable to physically attack people for differing views.

But for those of you who thought it was acceptable to punch Nazis: how do you feel about assaulting a Bernie Sanders supporter for carrying an American flag?

For my part, I initially scoffed when people suggested antifa were as dangerous as the neo-Nazi groups who have been in the ascendant since Trump declared his campaign; I believed that they could not exist without the alt-right and were a strictly reactionary movement. This story shows that antifa do have goals beyond stopping the Nazis, and that they are every bit as anti-American and every bit as determined to deprive people of their civil liberties as the neo-Nazis are. I hope that they are every bit as fringe as well, but I am no longer scoffing.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Cpt._Funkotron » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:41 am

This is a horrible crime, I hope the assailant gets identified and the authorities throw the book at him, but I don't think this is indicative of the entire movement. The victim wasn't the only person among the counter-protestors carrying an American flag, there were apparently several others, but this guy here seems to have been the only one who was assaulted. What I'm guessing at is that it seems that the assailant is a lone nut, although I don't know for sure, since it's been almost three weeks since the incident and there doesn't seem to be any followup reports online.

In fact, does anyone else find that really weird? The incident occurred on August 4th, the video was uploaded pretty much immediately afterward, and then today, August 21st, 17 days later, the story explodes in all the kinds of places you'd expect it to explode. Infowars, Fox News, the Daily Wire, Free Beacon, you name a right-wing soapbox and it's put up an article about this in the past 24 hours.

Going to don my tin-foil hat for a moment, if you'll permit me, but if for example you wanted to distract people in the conservative news-sphere from the fact that the President's campaign manager has just been convicted on eight charges, and the President's lawyer plead guilty to doing illegal shit at the President's instruction, what's the kind of thing you'd try to throw up? Antifa giving a man a concussion for carrying an american flag is pretty saucy. It reminds people that although it's looking more like their golden boy is a crook, the left is full of vicious thugs who hate america and everything it stands for, and they have to resisted at all costs, especially in the upcoming midterms.

I'm not insinuating that this is fake news, although again, there doesn't seem to have been any follow-up reporting of any kind, but I think the promotion and proliferation of this story is meant as a well-timed political ploy.

One final point, unlike the alt-right, antifa does not have leaders or really any wider-ranging organization by it's nature. Anyone who wants to dress in black and counter-protest fascists can call themselves antifa, so forgive me if I have to scoff a little at the idea that they've got "goals beyond stopping the nazis" that they're not telling us about, as you say. A lot of them are anarchists and communists, so yeah some of the individual members have got their own axes to grind, but the unifying principle among all antifascists is anti-fascism.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby cmsellers » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:57 am

My first reaction was the same, which is why I looked for non-right-wing sources. It was covered in several mainstream sources, of which I picked the most local.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Windy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Cpt._Funkotron wrote:In fact, does anyone else find that really weird? The incident occurred on August 4th, the video was uploaded pretty much immediately afterward, and then today, August 21st, 17 days later, the story explodes in all the kinds of places you'd expect it to explode. Infowars, Fox News, the Daily Wire, Free Beacon, you name a right-wing soapbox and it's put up an article about this in the past 24 hours.

Going to don my tin-foil hat for a moment, if you'll permit me, but if for example you wanted to distract people in the conservative news-sphere from the fact that the President's campaign manager has just been convicted on eight charges, and the President's lawyer plead guilty to doing illegal shit at the President's instruction, what's the kind of thing you'd try to throw up? Antifa giving a man a concussion for carrying an american flag is pretty saucy. It reminds people that although it's looking more like their golden boy is a crook, the left is full of vicious thugs who hate america and everything it stands for, and they have to resisted at all costs, especially in the upcoming midterms.

I'm not insinuating that this is fake news, although again, there doesn't seem to have been any follow-up reporting of any kind, but I think the promotion and proliferation of this story is meant as a well-timed political ploy.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... y_theories
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Kivutar » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:07 pm

"People try to distract from their own wrongdoings by pointing out their enemy's wrongdoings" is common sense, not a conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby IamNotCreepy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:10 pm

Windy wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories


Hmmm, that's weird. I clicked on that link, and the only mentions of Trump are his contributions to various conspiracy theories (the birther movement, the deep state, global warming, vaccinations, etc.).
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby cmsellers » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:27 pm

And yet it is a conspiracy theory to suggest that this attack is a false flag designed to distract from attacks on Trump. While the alt-right has staged false flags attacks by antifa and made up news stories, mainstream sources confirmed that this actually happened, and as far as I know the victims have been associated with the alt-right in some way.

Now, it is possible that a member of the alt-right dressed as antifa to beat up a counterprotester carrying a US flag, though that would not be my default assumption. But let us assume for the sake of argument that the scuffle was instigated by a deep-cover alt-right person. Given that multiple people were involved in the attack, either antifa took the bait and joined in the attack, or that everyone involved in the attack was engaged in an alt-right conspiracy to frame antifa.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Crimson847 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:40 pm

Funkotron: It probably didn't make the right-wing news until recently because no one reported on it until two days ago, when the Oregonian article that sellers linked was published. Prior to that, there was virtually no reporting on violence by antifa at that rally, just the violence by the police, which took up all the local media bandwidth at first. I only knew about it because I was camped out on Twitter all day that day, scrounging for firsthand info on what was going on without having to get into flashbang and pepper spray range.

RE the lone nut theory: If you watch the video, there's at least four people using force to try to take the flag from him. Only one used a club on the guy, but the others don't look noticeably perturbed or do anything to stop him.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby IamNotCreepy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:09 pm

cmsellers wrote:And yet it is a conspiracy theory to suggest that this attack is a false flag designed to distract from attacks on Trump. While the alt-right has staged false flags attacks by antifa and made up news stories, mainstream sources confirmed that this actually happened, and as far as I know the victims have been associated with the alt-right in some way.

Now, it is possible that a member of the alt-right dressed as antifa to beat up a counterprotester carrying a US flag, though that would not be my default assumption. But let us assume for the sake of argument that the scuffle was instigated by a deep-cover alt-right person. Given that multiple people were involved in the attack, either antifa took the bait and joined in the attack, or that everyone involved in the attack was engaged in an alt-right conspiracy to frame antifa.


I didn't read that his post as saying that it was a false flag, but that they only started talking about heavily on that day to distract from what was going on in Trump world.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby cmsellers » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:13 pm

IamNotCreepy wrote:I didn't read that his post as saying that it was a false flag, but that they only started talking about heavily on that day to distract from what was going on in Trump world.

Ahh, OK. I completely misread it then. Still, Crimson's explanation for that makes sense.
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Windy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:49 pm

Kivutar wrote:"People try to distract from their own wrongdoings by pointing out their enemy's wrongdoings" is common sense, not a conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby iMURDAu » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:25 pm

#notallTCSers
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Windy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:49 pm

According to the rules it's better to generalize large groups of people because it's less personal this way. So instead of saying "iMURDAu is literally hitler" it's better to say "everyone on TCS is literally hitler".
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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby sunglasses » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:18 pm

Everybody back on topic

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Re: When all you have is a temper, everything looks like a N

Postby Windy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:29 pm

I don't understand, I thought this topic was about how everyone is a Nazi???
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