Rex Tillerson has been fired

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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby Aquila89 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:19 pm

JamishT wrote:As far as I can remember (which isn't very far or specific), it isn't all that unusual. The number of times people are being shuffled around is the unusual part, of course.


Well, allegedly he's planning to do it again. It's being reported that he wants to replace VA secretary David Shulkin with Rick Perry.

Trump nominated Gina Haspel to replace Pompeo as CIA director, emphasizing that he would be the first woman to fill the position. I think it's more important that Haspel used to run a CIA "black site" in Thailand, where suspected terrorists were brutally tortured.
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby sunglasses » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:46 pm

IamNotCreepy wrote:Apparently, Tillerson found out he was fired through Trump's tweet.

Wow. Just, wow.


That's fucked up.

I had been told the reason for dismissal was that Tillerson acknowledged that Russia probably poisoned people in Britain and that it was bad.
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:01 pm

sunglasses wrote:
IamNotCreepy wrote:Apparently, Tillerson found out he was fired through Trump's tweet.

Wow. Just, wow.


That's fucked up.

I had been told the reason for dismissal was that Tillerson acknowledged that Russia probably poisoned people in Britain and that it was bad.


He's been wanting to ditch Tillerson since last year. My pet theory is that he picked now to do it because he can use the "North Korea summit" storyline to bludgeon anyone who votes against his replacement for voting to keep the most important diplomatic position in government unfilled at such a "crucial time".
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby IamNotCreepy » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:42 pm

Crimson847 wrote:He's been wanting to ditch Tillerson since last year. My pet theory is that he picked now to do it because he can use the "North Korea summit" storyline to bludgeon anyone who votes against his replacement for voting to keep the most important diplomatic position in government unfilled at such a "crucial time".


I think you're attributing too much foresight to Trump's decision-making.
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:51 pm

I'm actually fine with Shulkin being fired, he's been a complete fuckup at the VA. They've basically been purging whistleblowers and low-level staff they feel they don't need, because obviously the problem with the VA is that there are TOO MANY people providing services to veterans and definitely not the other way around.

As for Tillerson and Pompeo, I see a lot of shit about how the State Department employees are cheering for the loss of Tillerson, to which my answer would be "Yo, you remember that Pompeo is the guy who contradicted the CIA's finding about Russian meddling and then had to walk it back the next day, right? Be careful what you wish for." Pompeo...I don't know if I'd call him 'worse', but he's a different sort of bad, and since Trump seems to want to gut the State Dpt...actually, yeah, he is worse, because at least Tillerson wasn't blocking and tackling for the president against his own department.
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby Aquila89 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:I'm actually fine with Shulkin being fired, he's been a complete fuckup at the VA. They've basically been purging whistleblowers and low-level staff they feel they don't need, because obviously the problem with the VA is that there are TOO MANY people providing services to veterans and definitely not the other way around.


But would Rick Perry do a better job? Though he said he doesn't want the job. On the other hand, he also said he wants to eliminate the Department of Energy, and now he heads it.
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:29 pm

Aquila89 wrote:
Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:I'm actually fine with Shulkin being fired, he's been a complete fuckup at the VA. They've basically been purging whistleblowers and low-level staff they feel they don't need, because obviously the problem with the VA is that there are TOO MANY people providing services to veterans and definitely not the other way around.


But would Rick Perry do a better job? Though he said he doesn't want the job. On the other hand, he also said he wants to eliminate the Department of Energy, and now he heads it.


I suspect he could not be much worse, and the VA is one of the departments beloved by both parties.
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby NathanLoiselle » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:40 pm

Pompeo kicks little dogs!? That rat bastard!!
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Re: Rex Tillerson has been fired

Postby blehblah » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:49 pm

This one is all over the map. On the one hand, Tillerson seemed to have more stable ideas than Trump. He wanted to keep the Iran nuclear deal going, didn't see the point of withdrawing from the Paris accord, acknowledged that Russia is being, like, really not nice, ya'll, and preferred continue to be open to diplomatic possibilities with North Korea.

Trump shat on every one of those ideas, at one point or another (of course, Trump took it from 'don't bother trying to do diplomacy with the Norks' to 'I'll make a great deal, personally, with Rocket Man'). Tillerson famously (allegedly) called Trump a 'fucking moron' a while back, which he then didn't exactly deny (or deny at all)... leading Trump to Twitter-challenge Tillerson to an IQ throw-down.

On the other hand, Tillerson was a total train wreck for the Department of State.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as- ... -1.4574974

Rex Tillerson was 'a truly awful secretary of state,' says former State Department adviser


https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/13/160 ... department

Rex Tillerson has been fired. Experts say he did damage that could last “a generation.”
Tillerson was “one of the worst secretaries of state” in modern history, according to experts from across the political spectrum.


As Aquila pointed-out, Trump's nominee to replace Pompeo over at the CIA is Gina Haspel. To add to the link Aquila provided:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ebf503a83d

Ms. Haspel was reportedly present when another detainee, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, was interrogated and waterboarded three times. On the instructions of her boss, Jose Rodriguez, she wrote a memo ordering the destruction of videotapes showing the interrogations, even though the two had been told to preserve them for an ongoing investigation. Mr. Rodriguez was later reprimanded, but Ms. Haspel was not.

Ms. Haspel’s record in Thailand almost derailed her career. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) intervened to prevent her promotion to head the CIA’s clandestine service. But Ms. Feinstein, who has since worked with Ms. Haspel in her position as deputy director, now seems to have a more nuanced view. She said Ms. Haspel has been “a good deputy director” who “seems to have the confidence of the agency.” Ms. Feinstein also noted that while waterboarding and other harsh techniques had been ruled legal by Justice Department lawyers at the time Ms. Haspel oversaw them, they have since been outlawed.


I think I'm starting to understand how this all works. Be willing to lie and/or cover-up shit, and you could be the next AG, CIA director, or whatever - the sky's the limit. Don't play ball, like McCabe, be (allegedly) less than candid about something-something, and you're sacked less than 36 hours before you get a full pension.

Heck, we could probably have an entire thread about McCabe's firing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... get-fired/

It's hard to say exactly why former top FBI official Andrew McCabe was fired Friday night, hours before he was set to retire with full benefits. The top line from the man who fired him, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, is that McCabe authorized the FBI to talk to the media about a Hillary Clinton-related criminal inquiry, then “lacked candor” when internal investigators asked him about it.

That's all we know for now. The details aren't public because the Justice Department hasn't yet released a report from its own internal watchdog.


Lacked candor, huh? Could the same be said about Sessions' testimony about things like Russia, and Russians, and meetings with Russians?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/p ... rjury.html

F.B.I. Investigated Sessions for Possible Perjury Over Russia Denials


Who, pray tell, at the FBI...

Andrew G. McCabe, the F.B.I.’s deputy director at the time, authorized the investigation, the two people said.


To be fair to Sessions, the investigation didn't go anywhere (it's difficult to prove someone didn't forget something, I suppose) and Sessions apparently didn't know about the investigation until after he fired McCabe. Also, perjury and 'lacking candor' are rather different things, maybe. I know what the first is, but I have no idea what the second is.

Going back to the reasoning from Sessions, McCabe was axed because of something to do with an investigation into the Clinton Foundation, and didn't Sessions promise to recuse himself from some things?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -fired-fbi

That article quotes a Just Security article which, in-turn, quoted some of Sessions' confirmation testimony:

GRASSLEY: OK. I think, that’s — let me emphasize then with a follow up question. To be very clear, you intend to recuse yourself from both the Clinton e-mail investigation and any matters involving the Clinton Foundation, if there are any?

SESSIONS: Yes.


It could be argued, as the article notes, that firing McCabe for lacking candor based on the (as-yet unreleased) findings of a DoJ internal investigations unit (more or less) is valid. Let's say during the course of the Clinton Foundation investigation, McCabe did something like authorize the waterboarding of a witness in Thailand (you know, something clearly illegal, immoral, and just plain wrong), I'd say it's entirely fair for Sessions to can the guy... or in this administration, nominate him to head-up the CIA. To me, that doesn't create a problem when viewed against Sessions' recusal, though for appearances, it would probably be better to led a deputy handle it (unless that deputy is Rod "Deepstate" Rosenstein).

On the other hand, Sessions' recusal really doesn't matter, because it wasn't what he told Grassley it would be.

It is also worth noting that while Sessions said he would recuse himself from anything related to the Clinton Foundation in his exchange with Grassley, his official recusal statement only mentions the 2016 campaign. “There is a difference in what Mr. Sessions said he would do when testifying before Congress and his official recusal letter,” Andrea Curcio, a law professor at Georgia State University, told me.


Doesn't that really take the cake?

I agree with other sentiments in this thread; Trump is slowly but surely draining the sanity out of his administration, including on his legal team. Trump is really just hitting his stride.

Given the quick leak about Trump's phone call with Putin, and Trump's rage about the leak, I'm thinking McMaster is on the chopping block. As Rubio, acting at being the stalwart of morality which he is best known for, put it, congratulating Putin isn't good, but leaking is real, real bad, mmkay? At least Kushner has plausible deniability since his security clearance has been nerfed.

Trump's pattern couldn't be more clear. He's shat upon Sessions for recusing himself. He wanted to fire Mueller ages ago ('ages' being relative to the news cycle for this administration). McCabe had to go. Tillerson was a walking dead man who also had the temerity to imply Russia was behind some people in Britain coming-down with a case of the nerve-vapours. It's Trump's way or the highway, or the other way, or some way, but it'll be way away. Bottom line, if you're not actively working to contain the Russia investigation and have Trump's back (which ever way he happens to be facing), you're toast.

I don't think Trump will try to shitcan Mueller anytime soon. *hits refresh on news tab* Yeah, I'm sticking with that prediction for the day. I think the next person who will enjoy unlimited time with the family will be Rosenstein.

Trump figures he's got Comey and McCabe in a box. They were fired, therefore anything they say will be a lie directed at exacting revenge, the reasoning behind which everyone will get (because Trump's only brain is a lizard brain). Their memo's are fake, their testimony is/will be fake, it's all a witch-hunt, etc. Yet, because Sessions recused himself (which Trump is still pissed about), Trump can't lean on Sessions to control the investigation. He has to oust Rosenstein and get someone loyal in there. That would save him having to can Mueller.

EDIT: Since I mentioned Trump's legal team, his lead lawyer, John Dowd, is out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/us/p ... awyer.html

Mr. Dowd, who took over the president’s legal team last summer, had considered leaving several times in recent months and ultimately concluded that Mr. Trump was increasingly ignoring his advice, one of the people said.
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