US/North Korea Talks Proposed

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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:26 pm

It might be a more persuasive comparison if it weren't simply naked, discussion derailing "whataboutism" (as if another president doing something similar suddenly makes it morally okay for Trump to slobber authoritarian knob). It's just as spineless a thing now as it always was, no matter who does it.

Its also much less convincing when it's a pattern of behavior for Trump. Hell, I'd probably say it's core to his very psychology.

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/02/52652004 ... t-presents

His love for Duterte is VERY in line with his pardon of Joe Arpaio and the language he uses towards his usual scapegoats in the face of his "great" America.

Edit: And frankly, I wouldn't be quite as pissed if our president wasn't repeatedly honoring, openly praising, and breaking bread with absolute monsters, again and again.
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby Absentia » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:19 pm

2001 is before Vlad went all Bond Villain. We were still feeling each other out.

Honestly, if a little empty flattery is what it takes to stabilize Korea that's a trade I can live with. Doesn't feel great, but geopolitics rarely does.
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby JamishT » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:00 am

Absentia wrote:Honestly, if a little empty flattery is what it takes to stabilize Korea that's a trade I can live with. Doesn't feel great, but geopolitics rarely does.


To me, there's a difference between empty flattery and justifying atrocities. That's the largest problem I had with what the president did at this "summit".
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby Cobra-D » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:05 am

North Korea is like a heroin addict, they totally promise to come clean and give up the stuff for good so he can be part of the fam again. Sure he’s said this before only to bail the minute he go the cash but yeah it’s totes different this time. So yeah I’m not really super excited of doing the equivalent of getting the “congratulations you’re clean now” party.
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:39 pm

They've been clean for over 9 months though!

Btw when you google "when was the last north korean nuclear test" and your birthday pops up... feels like my last one...


Should've been the bomb!
*scurries away*
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Absentia wrote:2001 is before Vlad went all Bond Villain. We were still feeling each other out.


Yeah, Putin in 2001 was not comparable to Kim Jong-un. Russia wasn't on the level of North Korea, and it still isn't.

I thought Bush was perceived as naive and stupid because of that quote about Putin, not pro-authoritarian.
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby Windy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:08 am

Aquila89 wrote:But I have to admit, painful as it is, that part of me wants this to fail. Rationally, I know that success would be great. But the idea that Trump is responsible for this causes me intense cognitive dissonance. It's not just that I hate him. I don't want to believe that the way he behaves - acting like a deranged goon, making threats on Twitter, giving Kim a schoolyard nickname - is a successful approach to international diplomacy. I want to believe that maturity, self-restraint, expertise and careful language are necessary. On an emotional level, this is more important to me than peace in Korea. And it's just terrible that I feel like that. It's pathetic.


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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby blehblah » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 pm

Awww, snap.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... it-pledges

North Korea has continued to upgrade its only known nuclear reactor used to fuel its weapons program, satellite imagery has shown, despite ongoing negotiations with the US and a pledge to denuclearise.

Infrastructure improvements at the Yongbyon nuclear plant are “continuing at a rapid pace”, according to an analysis by monitoring group 38 North of commercial satellite images taken on 21 June.


Did Kim not get the tweet about this whole thing, or did he (gasp!) lie?

Nah, he didn't lie. He's honorable that way. It's not like he is in-charge of cashing cheques which Trump's stable-genius-brain writes.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 3469735936

Trump tweet wrote:Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!


Surely, Trump is delivering on stuff beyond minor details about North Korea.

http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-sti ... eo-1000928

Despite President Donald Trump’s boast at a rally that he had secured the remains of U.S. troops killed during the Korean War, his secretary of state says North Korea is yet to send any.

Around 7,700 U.S. soldiers remain unaccounted for from the conflict, the majority of whom are presumed dead in North Korea. As the U.S. military moved 100 wooden coffins to the border between North and South Korea in preparation last week, Trump told a rally in Minnesota: “We got back our great fallen heroes, the remains, in fact today already 200 have been sent back.”


Ohhh, that's gotta getcha right in the feels, parents of Korean war veterans, or whatever... something-something... lies. At least that douchebag and totally-not-a-hero-because-he-got-caught John McCain isn't tweeting shit.

https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/statu ... 4702792704

McCain.jpg
McCain.jpg (72.39 KiB) Viewed 294 times


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/opin ... d-for.html
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Re: US/North Korea Talks Proposed

Postby blehblah » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:50 pm

North Korea didn't take long to revert to familiar rhetoric.

Mike Pompeo headed over to North Korea to "fill-in some details" about denuclearization. So far as public statements go, there were two takes:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018 ... talks.html

The United States and North Korea gave starkly contrasting reports Saturday after two days of talks intended to firm up Pyongyang’s promise to dismantle its nuclear weapons systems.

While Secretary of State Michael Pompeo claimed limited “progress” in “productive” meetings, North Korea expressed “regret” over the talks and accused the Trump administration of making unfair “unilateral” demands.

Within hours of Pompeo’s departure early Saturday from the North Korean capital of Pyongyang, its foreign ministry issued a statement saying U.S. demands might lead to “a dangerous phase that might rattle our willingness for denuclearization that had been firm.”


Aw, c'mon, guys. Can't we all just get along?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4318921/nort ... n-demands/

North Korea’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un had been hopeful that the “good faith” established between himself and U.S. President Donald Trump would hold talks in good stead, but the U.S. had instead insisted on a “unilateral and gangster-like demand” for denuclearization, according to a translated version of the statement published by KCNA Watch, a website that compiles North Korean state media reports.


Slow but steady to win the race, or whatever - you guys are asking way too much, because (as I've said before) diplomacy is about saying, "nice doggy" until you find a bigger rock.

A nice doggy:

However, the statement also appeared to separate North Korea’s annoyance with the U.S. from its relationship with Trump himself.

“We still cherish our good faith in President Trump. The U.S. should make a serious consideration of whether the toleration of the headwind against the wills of the two top leaders would meet the aspirations and expectations of the world people as well as the interests of its country,” the statement concluded.



A bigger rock:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... b8b6084ef9

During the 21st century, North Korea has performed five separate nuclear tests, all verified by the incontrovertible science of seismology. The most recent, in 2017, yielded enough energy to kill more than 2 million people if it were detonated in a populous area like Seoul, South Korea. Despite multiple promises to denuclearize over the years, the nuclear threat looms larger than ever. Worst of all, there's now a clear path for North Korea to develop a hydrogen bomb.


NB: That article is quite interesting

The second take on how it all went came from Pompeo:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/08/politics ... index.html

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo dismissed North Korea's accusation of a "gangster-like mindset" in denuclearization talks, saying the two nations had productive conversations that will continue in the days ahead.

Pompeo brushed aside the comments Sunday, saying "if those requests were gangster-like, the world is a gangster," and noting that the UN Security Council has been clear on what North Korea needs to achieve.


In other words, it's all good, nothing to see here, things are moving along.

On Sunday night in Vietnam, at a dinner with Vietnamese and American business leaders, Pompeo said Vietnam experienced an "incredible rise" over the past few decades in part due to new engagement with the United States. He then delivered a message to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: "President Trump believes your country can replicate this path -- it's yours if you'll seize the moment. The miracle can be yours."

[...]

"People are going to make stray comments after meetings," he said of North Korea's assertion. "If I paid attention to what the press said, I'd go nuts. I am determined to achieve the commitment that President Trump made, and I'm counting on chairman Kim to be determined to follow through on the commitment that he made."


Vietnam is a miracle? Cool, Mike. But, just to be clear, the press reported what North Korea said. That is very different from "what the press said", however confusing that nuance may be in a post-fact world.

Mike, your determination to cash the cheque which Trump's loud mouth wrote is notable, and the ultimate goal is laudable, but we now know that by "filling-in" you were tasked with telling North Korea to remove everything nuclear-ish, like yesterday, and North Korea told you to go fuck yourself. Kim, on the other hand, made no commitment, and has acted as-such.

In the immortal words of a past POTUS, this isn't rocket surgeory. The current North Korean regime has long lived with sanctions. Totalitarian regimes are good at that, so long as they have a lifeline to international markets. Things got real for North Korea when China tightened the noose (because Trump abandoning TPP was good times for China). Since then, Trump has been doing everything he can, based on advise from crackpot charlatans like Navarro and Kudlow, to piss-off China.

That's not "nice doggy", it's diplomacy which goes straight to, "I'm a gonna throw these-here rocks, because I don't like you, doggy," with no consideration for little things like economics and security. Pompeo showed-up in North Korea to make demands whilst Trump is escalating a trade war with China (or, really, everywhere not-USA).

If post WW-II has taught us anything, it's that countries which trade together don't sacrifice the lives of millions of their citizens fighting each other.

Trump is now surrounded by quacks on every policy side, and they are running him down the rails of his own nutiness. I guess he's in his comfort zone.


On North Korea, it's time to pull the gloves off, Trump - send Kushner in. He'll sort this whole thing out. Condos on the beach in no time, but not before 666 Fifth Avenue debt is sorted-out (fingers crossed, Jared!).
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