Florida school shooting

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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Anglerphobe » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:04 pm

Those fork things are cool. It looks like something you would use to catch an alligator. Battle forks are actually historical, too, and I would guess that these are meant as a non lethal modern equivalent. I want to make one and fork my friends and sparring partners with it.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby blehblah » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:14 am

The head of the NRA weighed-in.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43158994

"As usual, the opportunists waited not one second to exploit tragedy for political gain," said Mr LaPierre, who is head of the National Rifle Association (NRA).

"They hate the NRA. They hate the second amendment. They hate individual freedom," he said, referring to the second amendment in the US constitution, which governs the "right to keep and bear arms".

[...]

On the first day of CPAC, the NRA had an uninterrupted hour to offer its response to Parkland - and respond it did. In a one-two punch, Dana Loesch and Wayne LaPierre launched a blistering attack again the mainstream media, the FBI and pro-gun-control Democratic politicians.

The media "love mass shootings" because of the ratings, Ms Loesch said. The FBI rank-and-file should rise up against a "corrupt" senior staff that has failed to stop mass shooters, Mr LaPierre railed. Democrats, he said, "hate individual freedom".


Okie dokie.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby KleinerKiller » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:06 am

I don't know why I'm still disgusted by this, given it's exactly the response I was expecting. Literally exact, since it's just the same spewed buzzwords over and over again. The NRA and the Second Amendment are the same thing, everyone other than us is corrupt and evil, liberals hate our freedom, buy more guns. This is a printout they've memorized for every occasion. And yet it still makes me grind my teeth and hate everything.

TL;DR - Fuck these evil shitstains.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:41 am

Joe: "YOU MONSTER! YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT CHILDREN BEING MURDERED!!! ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS YOUR PRECIOUS GUNS!"

Bob: "YOU MONSTER! YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT CHILDREN BEING MURDERED!!! ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA!"

Derek, just walking in: "Wow Bob, I can't believe you would attack Joe's character like that. That was completely unacceptable."



It's easy to miss or forget about Joe if you're liberal and don't talk politics with (m)any conservatives. Bob will seek you out for abuse, so he's easy to spot. But Joe isn't really after you, so there's no reason to notice him most of the time unless you happen to catch him in the act of savaging someone else. So Bobs seem to pop out of the woodwork constantly while Joes are hard to find.

If you want to understand Bob's behavior and deal with it more effectively, though, it's important to clearly see what he's reacting to, which is generally something Joe is saying or doing.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Absentia » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:49 am

I've got a possibly unpopular opinion here. Not that I would shed a tear if private citizens weren't allowed to carry around assault weapons anymore, but...

I can't help but wonder why people get so up in arms (har har) about gun control when high school students die in an attack like this, but there aren't any impassioned CNN town halls about, say, suicide prevention, when suicide kills far more young people in any given year than the combined total of every school attack ever recorded. The leading cause of death in the Americans aged 15-24 demographic is car accidents, but nobody is demanding instant action from lawmakers to raise the driving age or calling Toyota a bunch of evil bastards for making such a dangerous product.

It seems like society is willing to accept some small risk of death in most things, but this one particular brand of gun violence that accounts for an infinitesimal fraction of the death rate has everyone wringing their hands. What am I missing?
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby DoglovingJim » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:56 am

Absentia wrote:I've got a possibly unpopular opinion here. Not that I would shed a tear if private citizens weren't allowed to carry around assault weapons anymore, but...

I can't help but wonder why people get so up in arms (har har) about gun control when high school students die in an attack like this, but there aren't any impassioned CNN town halls about, say, suicide prevention, when suicide kills far more young people in any given year than the combined total of every school attack ever recorded. The leading cause of death in the Americans aged 15-24 demographic is car accidents, but nobody is demanding instant action from lawmakers to raise the driving age or calling Toyota a bunch of evil bastards for making such a dangerous product.

It seems like society is willing to accept some small risk of death in most things, but this one particular brand of gun violence that accounts for an infinitesimal fraction of the death rate has everyone wringing their hands. What am I missing?

It's called overemphasizing things to make it look like you're doing something while ignoring bigger more important problems. Like how in Australia last year there was all this commotion and publicity about legalizing same sex marriage compared to I don't know, figuring out solutions to our growing issues with mass homelessness and the fact our youth crime rates seem to be increasing?
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby jbobsully11 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:05 am

Absentia wrote:It seems like society is willing to accept some small risk of death in most things, but this one particular brand of gun violence that accounts for an infinitesimal fraction of the death rate has everyone wringing their hands. What am I missing?

If you use a car properly, it (usually) won’t kill anyone or anything. It has specific uses that aren’t “kill/destroy all the things.” There is risk in using a car, yes, but its primary function isn’t to rain destruction and hell on Earth. It’s especially disturbing to some if it’s a minor with a gun, because people are weirdly inconsistent with how they view teens.

As for why suicides aren’t talked about more, I suspect it has to do with the fact that people suck at talking about mental health/illness in general.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby KleinerKiller » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:18 am

Absentia wrote:I've got a possibly unpopular opinion here. Not that I would shed a tear if private citizens weren't allowed to carry around assault weapons anymore, but...

I can't help but wonder why people get so up in arms (har har) about gun control when high school students die in an attack like this, but there aren't any impassioned CNN town halls about, say, suicide prevention, when suicide kills far more young people in any given year than the combined total of every school attack ever recorded. The leading cause of death in the Americans aged 15-24 demographic is car accidents, but nobody is demanding instant action from lawmakers to raise the driving age or calling Toyota a bunch of evil bastards for making such a dangerous product.

It seems like society is willing to accept some small risk of death in most things, but this one particular brand of gun violence that accounts for an infinitesimal fraction of the death rate has everyone wringing their hands. What am I missing?


1) When a whole load of people die at once from the same cause, it's generally a more pressing concern than when a large number of people die individually from the same or a similar cause. More people die of the flu every year than would die if a series of mid-sized bombs went off across NYC, but the bombs would rightly be considered a more pressing concern by the public and government.

2) School shootings may not have an enormous death total by comparison, but taking into account how often mass shootings in general happen with the same kind of weapons, it's an offshoot of a similar problem.

3) Most of the people who die in a school shooting are children and teenagers, aka the people society should most want to protect. More youths die of suicide than being shot at school, but suicide is something there are already systems in place to prevent (ineffective as some of them may be) and unless the teen wants to take someone with them, only one person dies per suicide by nature. A school shooting takes swathes of lives with no warning, and the only systems in place to stop them from happening -- metal detectors, cops on campus, etc -- are only effective after the violence has begun.

4) Most car accidents are just that: accidents. Non-malicious. Nearly all that aren't 15-car pileups also result in a much lower death count than even the smallest-scale school shootings. Most people also need cars for a wide variety of uses, while something like a fully-automatic rifle can only be used outside of a firing range to kill a load of people quickly.

5) The NRA are bastards who make money by ensuring that weapons like these are widely available to the public with as little restriction as possible, and in the course of making this a reality they also inflame the general political tensions that lead to far more problems in the cycle. Conditions will never improve as long as their generous donations and brand recognition hold sway over the people in power.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:45 am

Absentia wrote:I've got a possibly unpopular opinion here. Not that I would shed a tear if private citizens weren't allowed to carry around assault weapons anymore, but...

I can't help but wonder why people get so up in arms (har har) about gun control when high school students die in an attack like this, but there aren't any impassioned CNN town halls about, say, suicide prevention, when suicide kills far more young people in any given year than the combined total of every school attack ever recorded. The leading cause of death in the Americans aged 15-24 demographic is car accidents, but nobody is demanding instant action from lawmakers to raise the driving age or calling Toyota a bunch of evil bastards for making such a dangerous product.

It seems like society is willing to accept some small risk of death in most things, but this one particular brand of gun violence that accounts for an infinitesimal fraction of the death rate has everyone wringing their hands. What am I missing?


For one, suicides and car accidents generally don't make national news, because there's no villain to get mad at and usually fewer victims in any individual incident.


Two, fatal car accidents and suicide are easier to dismiss as things that happen to particular kinds of people, namely bad drivers and the severely depressed. If you don't put yourself in either of those categories, then it's easy to think that you're pretty much safe.

By contrast, the public setting and random target selection in these kinds of shootings mean that virtually anyone could be a target. If a gang member gets shot in a gang war, only other gang members and people who live in the ghettos where those fights happen need to worry that they could be next. Whereas if a rampage shooter attacks a mall, anyone who's ever gone shopping has to worry that next time it could happen to them. From a political standpoint, "anyone who goes shopping" is a much larger and more influential coalition than "gang members and the desperately poor", so there's far more public pressure to solve rampage shootings than gang violence even though the latter kills far more people.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Krashlia » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:57 am

Florida Gun laws need changing to stricter standards, and Operations Exile and Ceasefire need to come back.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby DoglovingJim » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:42 am

https://www.local10.com/news/parkland-school-shooting/here-is-what-you-need-to-know-about-armed-deputy-who-failed-to-act-during-school-shooting
As gun fire erupted within Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, the armed deputy who was tasked with protecting the children of the Parkland community is accused of taking cover to protect himself instead of doing what he had been paid and trained to do.

When faced with the realization Thursday that he was going to be suspended without pay, Sheriff Scott Israel allowed Broward Sheriff's Office Deputy Scot Ralph Peterson to resigned/retire, which would make him eligible for whatever benefits and pay he might be entitled to.

While Nikolas Cruz used an AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle to kill 17 people, Peterson was armed and in uniform. Israel said he was seen "take up a position" outside of the west side of building 12 during the massacre, "and he never went in."

According to a Coral Springs police officer, Peterson hid behind a concrete column near the stairs. Israel said Cruz began shooting at 2:21 p.m., and exited the building about 2:27 p.m. Peterson, who towers over 6 feet tall, was outside the building for four minutes, according to Israel.

His actions appeared to contradict what his superiors expected of him. They were also inconsistent with his most recent employee evaluation stating that he took "pride in protecting the students, faculty and staff" and "was dependable and reliable."

Sgt. Greg Molamphy nominated him as the Parkland Deputy of the Year in 2017. In a memo Molamphy sent to Lt. Michael DeVita, he wrote Peterson handled "issues that arise with tact and solid judgment."

BSO hired Peterson in 1985 after studying at Miami Beach Senior High School, Miami-Dade College and Florida International University. Records show he was transferred to the school resource officer program in 1991. Three years later, the Florida Association of School Resource Officers recognized him with the Most Outstanding School Resource Officer in the State award.

The 54-year-old veteran had been working at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School since 2009, according to Parkland records. Israel said that he "resigned/retired" from his position as school resource officer Thursday, after learning from Lt. Barry Lindquist that he was under investigation.

He received numerous awards during his tenure. In 2013, Parkland officials named him Broward County Sheriff's Office Parkland employee of the year. The department recognized Peterson as SRO of the Year for proving "to be reliable in handling issues with tact and judgment" in 2014.

Records show his base pay was over $100,000 a year in 2013 and 2014, but dropped to about $75,800 in 2015. His overtime pay remained about the same during those three years.

In 2015, the Sun Sentinel reported he was among the police officers who were living for free on school property in exchange for after-hours campus security. Records show he had been living at Atlantic Technical College in Margate since 2000.

After recognizing his 30 years of service in 2015, Israel wrote that Peterson's "dedication and allegiance" were "the best illustrations of the service BSO provides."

Records show he lives in Boynton Beach. Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office deputies were guarding his home Thursday night.

Israel said the investigation will continue, and two other unidentified BSO deputies were placed on administrative duties over their handling of tips reported about Cruz's prior threats.


Apparently they also need security guards that can put their fears aside and actually do their jobs.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Aquila89 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:17 am

LaoWai wrote:blehblah posted a picture, and

I sort of feel like that's a fake photograph, by which I mean, that's a blatantly fake photograph. Every time he cries "FAKE NEWS" another photo-shopper earns his wings by putting together this sort of image.

This sort of patently manufactured stuff is exactly why Trump is still considered a person who cares about people whose names don't end in "-ump" and begin with "Tr-."


What, the photo about his notes? What do you base that upon? It was published by the Associated Press, and the Trump administration didn't call it fake. Snopes fact-checked it.

(blehblah upvoted that post? Now I'm totally confused. Am I missing something?)

Absentia wrote: The leading cause of death in the Americans aged 15-24 demographic is car accidents, but nobody is demanding instant action from lawmakers to raise the driving age or calling Toyota a bunch of evil bastards for making such a dangerous product.


Well, a lot of action was taken to make cars safer. In 1965, Ralph Nader wrote Unsafe at Any Speed, where he claimed that car manufacturers don't care about the safety of their customers, and it became a bestseller. A lot of safety measures were introduced since then, and it worked. In the late 1960s, the number of annual deaths from car accidents in the US was around 50,000 - 25 out of every 100,000 persons. Since then, it declines massively. In 2017, it was 37,000, 11,6 from every 100,000 persons.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby LaoWai » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:53 am

Aquila89 wrote:What, the photo about his notes? What do you base that upon? It was published by the Associated Press, and the Trump administration didn't call it fake. Snopes fact-checked it.


It's more of a prediction. By my calculation, it'll be called fake news by about this time next week, probably after it's been turned into a meme. I'm not yet sure how it'll get denied, but I'm pretty sure it will. Or else it won't be his own notes. Maybe, "As I was walking out there, someone just handed me the card. It's just some guy who gets coffee or something. I don't need notes, something, something."

You're absolutely right about the car-safety issue, too. Government sort of forces car companies to make cars safer, and also passes laws like mandatory seat belts and distracted driving restrictions.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby iMURDAu » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:58 pm

A state employee tasked with protecting and policing the building is going to draw a pension after hiding during a massacre.

People including the POTUS are talking about arming teachers.

Not everyone has it in them. The capacity to rush into danger. Teachers are paid like shit and now to ask them to put their lives on the line and carry a lethal weapon is just wrong. I don't know where the sentiment of "hand 'em a gun and they're instantly a soldier" comes from but real life doesn't work like that.
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Re: Florida school shooting

Postby Fun With Mr. Fudge » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:17 pm

iMURDAu wrote:A state employee tasked with protecting and policing the building is going to draw a pension after hiding during a massacre.

People including the POTUS are talking about arming teachers.

Not everyone has it in them. The capacity to rush into danger. Teachers are paid like shit and now to ask them to put their lives on the line and carry a lethal weapon is just wrong. I don't know where the sentiment of "hand 'em a gun and they're instantly a soldier" comes from but real life doesn't work like that.


Also, as one Florida student also pointed out, the idea requires teachers to prepare themselves to possibly shoot their own students:



After all, many school shooters are former or current students at the places they attack. Imagine having to look at each of your pupils as a potential target. Moreover, what if a teacher mistakes something a student has for a gun or accidentally shoots a kid while trying to protect them? If trained police officers accidentally shoot innocent people in tense situations, I imagine a teacher trained to use guns could do the same,.

Also, for people who say tougher gun laws won't prevent school shootings, I would ask how arming teachers would prevent them. After all, if the assumption is that unstable, mentally ill people are usually the ones shooting up schools, then why would the threat of being shot deter them? One could say, "being able to kill the shooter faster could save more lives." But wouldn't preventing people from owning semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines also help save lives by making it harder to shoot large numbers of people in short bursts?

I also wonder if people who support arming teachers assume that every teacher with a gun won't be tempted to use or threaten to use it if accosted by an unarmed but violent student. I imagine this being a possible problem for people at "rough" schools. I don't even want to think about what happens if the teacher turns out to be a bad actor or unstable themselves. And what if a teacher accidentally leaves a gun accessible to students or students figure out how to access it? That could help facilitate a school shooting. In short, I just worry that the prospect of gun-toting educators introduces too many potential problems and complications.
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