FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharmed)

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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Windy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:09 pm

In times like this it's important to remember that you're more likely to be struck by lightning than to be shot by the police so this is literally a non-issue.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby SandTea » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:19 pm

I thought it was "bitten by a shark"? I guess there isn't a lightning week.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:33 pm

"It'll never happen to me, so what do I care" is a social sickness, not a thing to advocate in some phony "voice of reason."
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby aviel » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:28 am

Windy wrote:In times like this it's important to remember that you're more likely to be struck by lightning than to be shot by the police so this is literally a non-issue.

As far as I can tell, this isn't true. Around 50 people are killed by lightning in the United States per year, and around 500 people are struck by lightning per year.

Data on police shootings are a little harder to come by, but it looks like the police kill around 1000 people per year in the United States. At some of the country's largest police departments, there were about twice as many non-fatal police shootings as fatal ones. This would suggest that around 3000 Americans are shot at by police per year.

In other words, you are about 6 times as likely to be shot at by police than struck by lightning, and 20 times more likely to be killed by police than by a lightning strike. Obviously, this makes no judgment about any individual's risk factors (e.g. violent criminal behavior, waving a golf club around during a storm, etc.), but it does mean that being shot by the police is much more common than being struck by lightning.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Lindvaettr » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:52 am

aviel wrote:Obviously, this makes no judgment about any individual's risk factors (e.g. violent criminal behavior, waving a golf club around during a storm, etc.), but it does mean that being shot by the police is much more common than being struck by lightning.


How much more likely to be shot by the police than stuck by lightening would you say I would be if I engaged in both of those things simultaneously while surrounded by police during a thunder storm?
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Krashlia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:20 am

Lindvaettr wrote:
aviel wrote:Obviously, this makes no judgment about any individual's risk factors (e.g. violent criminal behavior, waving a golf club around during a storm, etc.), but it does mean that being shot by the police is much more common than being struck by lightning.


How much more likely to be shot by the police than stuck by lightening would you say I would be if I engaged in both of those things simultaneously while surrounded by police during a thunder storm?


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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:07 am

aviel wrote:
Windy wrote:In times like this it's important to remember that you're more likely to be struck by lightning than to be shot by the police so this is literally a non-issue.

As far as I can tell, this isn't true. Around 50 people are killed by lightning in the United States per year, and around 500 people are struck by lightning per year.

Data on police shootings are a little harder to come by, but it looks like the police kill around 1000 people per year in the United States. At some of the country's largest police departments, there were about twice as many non-fatal police shootings as fatal ones. This would suggest that around 3000 Americans are shot at by police per year.

In other words, you are about 6 times as likely to be shot at by police than struck by lightning, and 20 times more likely to be killed by police than by a lightning strike. Obviously, this makes no judgment about any individual's risk factors (e.g. violent criminal behavior, waving a golf club around during a storm, etc.), but it does mean that being shot by the police is much more common than being struck by lightning.


The issue I see with this analysis is that you're looking at the total number of people shot, when I would think you'd want to be looking at how many people are wrongfully shot--or more realistically, some more easily definable proxy for that like the number of unarmed people shot. AFAIK nobody here objects to the police shooting, say, a mass shooter in the middle of a rampage or someone who charges them with a hunting knife in hand. It's not that sort of police shooting that has people concerned, it's the kind where they shoot people who didn't pose a threat.

Incidentally, according to your link there were 27 fatal police shootings of unarmed people in the first six months of 2017.

This year, fatal shootings of unarmed people have declined, continuing a trend over the past two years. In the first six months of this year, 27 unarmed people were fatally shot, compared with 34 for the same period in 2016 and 50 in the first six months of 2015.


27 unarmed people shot by police in 6 months (a rate that would leave us with 54 after a year) sounds rather comparable to 50 lightning deaths per year.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:32 am

But just to be clear, can we all agree that it is 100% not OK to shoot and kill someone whose hands are bound behind their back? Can we also agree that it's not too much to expect of our brave heroes in blue to take juuuuuust enough time to figure out if the person they're about to shoot actually and truly ought to be summarily executed? Not only am I getting tired of watching people being needlessly shot, I've also had enough of seeing my fellow Americans fall on their bellies and wriggle toward the nearest boot with their tongues hanging out.

I am SICK TO DEATH of seeing people demand to know what happened BEFORE the video started rolling. That's not how video works and you fucking know it. Though I have asked, it is yet to be answered (in this thread) just WHAT fucking scenario would have made it OK to shoot a man with his hands taped behind his back and a hood over his head. I'm still waiting and will have ZERO patience for any variation of "naw, but I'm safe because I would never [insert petty bullshit here]!"
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby aviel » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:44 am

Crimson847 wrote:The issue I see with this analysis is that you're looking at the total number of people shot, when I would think you'd want to be looking at how many people are wrongfully shot--or more realistically, some more easily definable proxy for that like the number of unarmed people shot.

Windy said it was more likely for a person to be struck by lightning than to be shot by the police. He didn't qualify by saying "shot wrongfully" or "shot while unarmed". I'm not making any judgment about the utility of his comparison; I was just trying to determine whether it was accurate. And I think I was pretty clear about the scope of my statement when I noted that it doesn't take into account risk factors like criminal behavior.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:04 am

aviel wrote:Windy said it was more likely for a person to be struck by lightning than to be shot by the police.


We should probably stop operating under the assumption that "Windy" is actually a real person. At one point, I tried to reach out and establish whether he/she/it was anything more than a stupid troll, but got treated like some disgusting pervert for my efforts. Ergo, I can only assume that we're dealing with some poorly-coded NPC.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby sunglasses » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:20 am

windy isn't the topic, nor should he be. Stay on topic.
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:23 am

sunglasses wrote:windy isn't the topic, nor should he be. Stay on topic.


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Like I said...

In fact, you should probably stop acting like "he" is a statement of certainty! All things considered, you're actually just proving my point. Would you like me to reiterate that point for you, and everyone watching?
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:57 am

This doesn't sound like it's going to end well.

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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DamianaRaven » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:06 am

Crimson847 wrote:This doesn't sound like it's going to end well.


It could. I'm an ever-hopeful optimist!
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Re: FBI Shoots Innocent Kidnapping Victim (Kidnappers Unharm

Postby DanteHoratio » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:26 am

I think we need better police training.
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