Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

What's happening in your world? Discuss it here.
Forum rules
Play nice. We will be watching

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Delta Jim » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:30 am

iMURDAu wrote:I place blame on the President who should be a leader of his own party and able to get deals done. But he's not a politician, right?


Image
Image

Like I said 20 pages ago:

20 pages ago I wrote:It's like for everything he does there's an accompanying tweet from 5 years ago where he says it's poor leadership.
  • 12

User avatar
Delta Jim
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 1850
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:59 pm
Location: Illinois
Show rep
Title: Not Very Notable

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby cmsellers » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:44 am

Delta Jim wrote:Like I said 20 pages ago:

20 pages ago I wrote:It's like for everything he does there's an accompanying tweet from 5 years ago where he says it's poor leadership.

That's only because Obama never made creepy comments about Ivanka. Even five years ago I'm sure the Donald would have supported that.
  • 5

User avatar
cmsellers
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 8033
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:20 pm
Location: Three miles from the bat bridge
Show rep
Title: The Bad Bart of Ruddigore

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Bromo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:14 am

Aquila89 wrote:
Bromo wrote:But seriously, since when has Trump ever been consistent, besides being consistently stupid?


I hope you know was being sarcastic...

He has been consistent on NAFTA; he criticizes it now and he's on the record criticizing it in 1993 when it was ratified.


So was I. I didn't mean to sound crass.
  • 0

"I spent a good 20 minutes searching for my glasses, when I realized I was seeing a bit too well.

Then I reached for my face and there were they." --Toy, 2016


The Pokémon master formerly known as Kevin Durant.
User avatar
Bromo
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:41 pm
Location: 'Murica
Show rep
Title: Token Homo

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby blehblah » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:35 pm

WaPo's Jennifer Rubin rips into Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... 366f1f11a0

The long and short of it is nobody can negotiate with Trump because nobody knows what the hell he wants.

On Friday, Minority Leader Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) was asked to come to the White House and spent 90 minutes with the president. He and Trump seemed to come to agreement on a general outline: “Schumer agreed to increase defense … spending to the level in the National Defense Authorization Act numbers, above what the White House had requested,” ABC News reported. “Schumer also agreed to consider the full amount the White House had requested for border security — above the amount included in the DACA proposal worked out by Senators Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.” Then, Schumer suggested a short-term extension to keep the government open, to which Trump seemed amenable.

Then Friday afternoon, Chief of Staff John F. Kelly “calls Schumer and complains that the outline that Schumer and Trump had discussed was too liberal. Full funding of the President’s border security request would not be enough, on its own, to strike a deal giving legal status to the dreamers.” Is this what Trump wants or what Kelly does? It’s impossible to know or even to understand what it means for Trump to want something (for the moment? Unless convinced otherwise?).


I'm sure there are a lot of contractors who can commiserate. How can one negotiate with someone who constantly changes his position, has little to no idea about how the shit he's trying to negotiate actually works, and who's greatest joy in life is screwing-over as many 'losers' as possible, even if is self-defeating?

On the floor of the Senate on Saturday, Schumer sounded exasperated. He first reviewed the sequence of events. “The bottom line is simple: President Trump just can’t take yes for an answer. He’s rejected not one but two viable bipartisan deals, including one in which I put his most prominent campaign pledge on the table,” he said. “What’s even more frustrating than President Trump’s intransigence is the way he seems amenable to these compromises before completely switching positions and backing off. Negotiating with President Trump is like negotiating with Jell-O.”


The same article notes it's not just the Democrats. Trump is not being a sly fox working-over the opponent in the role of bad cop as a set-up for the Republicans to sweep in and save the day.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has also been frustrated at times. On Wednesday, he grumbled, “I’m looking for something that President Trump supports, and he has not yet indicated what measure he is willing to sign. As soon as we figure out what he is for, then I would be convinced that we were not just spinning our wheels.” We really have no idea what that might be, even after the government has shuttered.


As the article notes, even after the shutdown has started, nobody knows what the hell Trump wants, other than "everything, maybe?".

Much the same can be said about the NAFTA negotiations.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/montrea ... -1.4496387

The Canadians are pretty-much figuring the only way to make a deal would be to give everything away. Trump doesn't want the negotiations, which he requested, to succeed. Even the Americans are referring to a group of their requests as "poison pills". How the hell do you negotiate with that? He wants to trigger the six-month warning before pulling out of NAFTA. He doesn't care what it will screw-up because that would be impossible; you can't care about things which you don't know exist.

Again, this is a guy who has demonstrated a lack of detailed knowledge about every policy every topic he comes across. There are plenty of vacuous people out there, but Trump is a perfect vacuum of knowledge; he's a veritable black hole of knowing things. There is no way he has an appreciation of tax policy, government funding, trade agreements, health care, immigration, the environment, or border security. While he loves to talk about what a great builder he is, the reality is the only thing he's good at is doing is tearing shit apart, you know, like those super-dense thingies in space.

Trump's default setting is, "If I didn't do it, it sucks," and every day he's finding different stuff he didn't do. If he didn't make it, it must be destroyed. If he doesn't understand it, it must be stupid. If he doesn't know about it, it's not worth knowing.

Make no mistake, no matter how much heat Trump gets for this, he will declare it a victory. That's easy to do when you have, quite literally, absolutely no idea what the hell is going-on. How do I know this?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/21/eric-tr ... cally.html

"I think it's a good thing for us," Eric Trump said of the government shutdown that was triggered at midnight on Friday by the failure of congressional negotiators and the Trump White House to reach a deal to fund the government. The public, Eric Trump said, would blame Democrats for the paralysis in Washington, and for the forced furlough of hundreds of thousands of federal employees, who would be sent home without pay.


And how does Eric know this?

During Saturday's call-in with Pirro, Eric Trump sought to explain why Democrats deserve the blame for the current shutdown by highlighting how many Democrats voted against a bill to fund the government.

"If you looked at the vote, you had 269 Republicans who voted to keep the government open. And you had 230 Democrats who voted to close government," he said, "and they'll say Trump wanted to close the government. ... It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And I'm pretty good at math."

Yet in the House, 230 Republicans voted for the measure, while in the Senate, 45 did, for a total of 275 GOP votes – not 269, as Trump claimed. On the Democrats' side, 197 voted against the spending bill in the House, while 44 Democrats opposed advancing the measure in the Senate for a total of 241 – not 230.
  • 8

A quantum state of signature may or may not be here... you just ruined it.
User avatar
blehblah
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 3872
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:16 pm
Show rep
Title: Error General, Panic Colonel

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Cobra-D » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:27 pm

To be fair to Eric, who knew math would be complicated.
  • 8

The truth is like poetry, everyone fucking hates poetry.
User avatar
Cobra-D
TCS Camper
TCS Camper
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:46 pm
Show rep
Title: The Witty Flirt

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby cmsellers » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:01 pm

blehblah wrote:The long and short of it is nobody can negotiate with Trump because nobody knows what the hell he wants

Quiet, you!

He's playing 45th-dimensional chess and your mind and hands just aren't great enough to grasp his brilliant strategy.
  • 10

User avatar
cmsellers
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 8033
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:20 pm
Location: Three miles from the bat bridge
Show rep
Title: The Bad Bart of Ruddigore

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:21 pm

blehblah wrote:The long and short of it is nobody can negotiate with Trump because nobody knows what the hell he wants

He knows what he wants, and he apparently actually was intent on a bipartisan deal, he's just easily convinced otherwise. No matter if you're the freedom caucus or to the left of Bernie Sanders, as long as you praise and suck up to the man, he's putty in your hands.
  • 1

"Schmibby Dibby Kabibby"- Alex Hirsch

"When in doubt, meow it out!"- Bex Taylor-Klaus
User avatar
Deathclaw_Puncher
Knight Writer
Knight Writer
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:42 pm
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Show rep
Title: Queen of the Cerignola Olives

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby IamNotCreepy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:14 pm

If they have been able to reach a deal between the two parties in Congress, why not just pass it?

If Trump refuses to sign or vetoes it, then the blame for any shutdown would fall squarely on him.
  • 8

User avatar
IamNotCreepy
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:00 am
Location: Inside the "Cone of Uncertainty"
Show rep
Title: The Yeast of Thought and Mind

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:46 pm

IamNotCreepy wrote:If they have been able to reach a deal between the two parties in Congress, why not just pass it?

If Trump refuses to sign or vetoes it, then the blame for any shutdown would fall squarely on him.


Because McConnell would not allow that to happen. He would refuse to pass a bill Trump might not sign if it would give his party a black eye.
  • 8

Doodle Dee. Snickers
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 2682
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 8:15 pm
Show rep

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby IamNotCreepy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:Because McConnell would not allow that to happen. He would refuse to pass a bill Trump might not sign if it would give his party a black eye.


A worse black eye than passing nothing and letting the government shut down? If he's stopping the vote on those grounds, then the GOP is still responsible for the shutdown.
  • 7

User avatar
IamNotCreepy
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:00 am
Location: Inside the "Cone of Uncertainty"
Show rep
Title: The Yeast of Thought and Mind

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Cobra-D » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:44 pm

IamNotCreepy wrote:
Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:Because McConnell would not allow that to happen. He would refuse to pass a bill Trump might not sign if it would give his party a black eye.


A worse black eye than passing nothing and letting the government shut down? If he's stopping the vote on those grounds, then the GOP is still responsible for the shutdown.


I'm assuming they prefer it get shut down this way so it could be easier to blame on the DEMS, as opposed to Trump vetoeing which increases the GOP being blamed by proxy
  • 7

The truth is like poetry, everyone fucking hates poetry.
User avatar
Cobra-D
TCS Camper
TCS Camper
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:46 pm
Show rep
Title: The Witty Flirt

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:05 pm

Cobra-D wrote:
IamNotCreepy wrote:
Doodle Dee. Snickers wrote:Because McConnell would not allow that to happen. He would refuse to pass a bill Trump might not sign if it would give his party a black eye.


A worse black eye than passing nothing and letting the government shut down? If he's stopping the vote on those grounds, then the GOP is still responsible for the shutdown.


I'm assuming they prefer it get shut down this way so it could be easier to blame on the DEMS, as opposed to Trump vetoeing which increases the GOP being blamed by proxy


Exactly.
  • 4

Doodle Dee. Snickers
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 2682
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 8:15 pm
Show rep

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby cmsellers » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:47 pm

So it's over, for now. The Dem leadership are saying they trust Yertle to uphold his end of the bargain, while everyone else is acting as if they caved. We'll see, I guess. I wonder if Yertle threatened to eliminate the filibuster?
  • 3

User avatar
cmsellers
TCS Junkie
TCS Junkie
 
Posts: 8033
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:20 pm
Location: Three miles from the bat bridge
Show rep
Title: The Bad Bart of Ruddigore

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby Australia » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:33 pm

Image
  • 10

YamI JamesT Eyebrows Edgar Logan Eric Michael Tess Sunny Notch Kate Jamish Lao Carp Moo FaceCitizen Aquila Nisi Qinglong Chaise Nullbert NotCIAagent JackRoad Delta MURDA Bert Czar Ambi JulyJack Adric Marcuse SilverMaple Nudge 52xMax Damiana Doma Pumpkin Toy Fry Andro Carrie Snarky Royal RLG Pikajew Windy skooma Kleiner Java Sellers Piter Gisarmbards Grimstone Recluse Esteban Syrup Krashlia Twistappel MacReady Funkotron mcfooty Pseudoman Creepy Kivutar nerd Ladki Jim Youghurt satan GL Angler
Deathclaw_Pyroncher
User avatar
Australia
Resident Dickhead
Resident Dickhead
 
Posts: 4135
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Take a wild guess
Show rep
Title: H8 Week but the H8 has 8 in it

Re: Government Shutdown 3: Civil War

Postby JamishT » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:51 am

Australia wrote:
Spoiler: show
Image


Nice.
  • 11

JamishT was a heck of a guy,
With a devilish twinkle in his eye.
With his hand-picked flowers,
And his feel-good powers,
He made all the girls blush and sigh.
User avatar
JamishT
TCS ModerBlobber
TCS ModerBlobber
 
Posts: 5259
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:31 pm
Location: KC, MO, AMERICA
Show rep
Title: The Wannabe Adult

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests