SandTea wrote:Grimstone, I want you to understand that I didn't claim this was rape. Sort of like how "grace" and most others were also not saying it was rape.
Grace says her friends helped her grapple with the aftermath of her night with Ansari. “It took a really long time for me to validate this as sexual assault,” she told us. “I was debating if this was an awkward sexual experience or sexual assault. And that’s why I confronted so many of my friends and listened to what they had to say, because I wanted validation that it was actually bad.”
SandTea wrote:Is it just because of the internet? Sometimes I really dislike how things happen on the internet. I was trying to be polite. I'll go away though and leave behind Samantha Bees' bit about it in my place.
To some extent, the two sides in the Ansari debate are talking past each other...The two sides in the debate line up roughly as follows: Ansari’s defenders point out that he didn’t commit a crime. Grace’s defenders say he behaved horribly. Both sides are right.
Crimson847 wrote:Kyle Smith of National Review summed up my view of the issue succinctly:To some extent, the two sides in the Ansari debate are talking past each other...The two sides in the debate line up roughly as follows: Ansari’s defenders point out that he didn’t commit a crime. Grace’s defenders say he behaved horribly. Both sides are right.
Grimstone wrote:Kate wrote:It is fairly presumptuous to assume that people who are annoyed by your stance don't have any experience with violent sexual assault themselves, whether in their own lives or because someone they love has experienced it. Given the statistics, it is unfortunately safe to assume that you are not alone in this. I am sorry you have this burden to carry and that people you love were hurt.
The point is I am aware of what rape is, and being handsy/asking more than once it is not.
Kate wrote:By saying that the only thing that counts as rape is rape that is the result of physical assault or overt threats, you are discounting so many instances of genuine sexual assault and downplaying just how hurtful this behavior can be even when it's not rape.
No, but pressuring someone and wearing them down is well on its way into that territory and you're acting like there is nothing at all wrong with it.
Grimstone wrote:Where did I say there was absolutely nothing wrong with his behavior? Where did I claim he was the perfect gentleman? Because I'm pretty sure nobody anywhere is making that argument. What I have been arguing(consistently, repeatedly, and specifically) has been about consent and taking issue with the people(cmsellers and co) claiming it was rape.
Kate wrote:When you claim that a fully clothed woman who had just said "no" can be groped without it being a violation of her consent because earlier in the evening she had been making out and engaging in oral sex with someone, minimize the times she said "no" and "not tonight,"
Tesseracts wrote:I'm especially nauseated by your argument that anyone who thinks consent through coercion is bad is a fake feminist.
Grimstone wrote:Anyone who thinks woman don't have the agency to say no or leave when asked more than once to have sex(and are not being threatened or physically forced) is not a feminist.
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