Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Fun With Mr. Fudge » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:30 pm

cmsellers wrote:The fact that Ansari says she described the encounter as bad "in retrospect" when she was clear that it was bad then indicates that he's at best clueless and quite possibly a callous hypocrite.


I'm not so sure about this point. In Grace's text she said that she'd been replaying the events in her head and was "realizing" how they affected her. That sounds like she ruminated about something unpleasant, which made it seem even more unpleasant in hindsight. To me it doesn't seem implausible that Ansari thought she called it bad in retrospect. Of course, one could say that sentiment runs counter to the lines, "It may have seemed okay. But I didn't feel good at all." Again, this makes me wonder what was actually communicated that night and what wasn't. But I guess the whole article is arguably an example of terrible communication between two people.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Grimstone » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:43 pm

Tesseracts wrote:If she said she was going to hate him if he had sex with her, there is no reasonable way he could interpret this as consent.


She was referring to penetrative sex, they had already given each other oral sex by this point in her story. If you count oral sex as "sex" in this context then they would already have had "sex" and she would already hate him and that would make this statement of hers nonsensical.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Fun With Mr. Fudge » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:54 am

Grimstone wrote:
Spoiler: show
phpBB [video]


So about that Ashleigh Banfield open letter...

It turns out that Katie Way, the author the Babe article, didn't take kindly to Banfield's criticism of her source. So when HLN reached out to her for an interview, Way responded with a venomous email that was obtained and posted by Mediaite:

It’s an unequivocal no from me. The way your colleague Ashleigh (?), someone I’m certain no one under the age of 45 has ever heard of, by the way, ripped into my source directly was one of the lowest, most despicable things I’ve ever seen in my entire life. Shame on her. Shame on HLN. Ashleigh could have “talked” to me. She could have “talked” to my editor or my publication. But instead, she targeted a 23-year-old woman in one of the most vulnerable moments of her life, someone she’s never f—— met before, for a little attention. I hope the ratings were worth it! I hope the ~500 RTs on the single news write-up made that burgundy lipstick bad highlights second-wave feminist has-been feel really relevant for a little while. She DISGUSTS me, and I hope when she has more distance from the moment she has enough of a conscience left to feel remotely ashamed — doubt it, but still. Must be nice to piggyback off of the fact that another woman was brave enough to speak up and add another dimension to the societal conversation about sexual assault. Grace wouldn’t know how that feels, because she struck out into this alone, because she’s the bravest person I’ve ever met. I would NEVER go on your network. I would never even watch your network. No woman my age would ever watch your network. I will remember this for the rest of my career — I’m 22 and so far, not too shabby! And I will laugh the day you fold. If you could let Ashleigh know I said this, and that she is no-holds-barred the reason, it’d be a real treat for me.

Thanks,
Katie


Obviously, this has no bearing on whether Grace's story is true. But it does give me the impression that Way was way too concerned with painting Grace as a hero/victim when writing her piece. I also found it funny that she bashed Banfield for supposedly only criticizing Grace to get attention. In that same scathing rebuke Way wrote: "I'm 22 so far, not too shabby!" That sentence suggests to me that she is reveling in the attention her piece got and sees herself as kind of a big deal because she wrote this article. Was her intention not to get attention?

Moreover, Way expressed disgust that Banfield "targeted" an anonymous person "in one of the most vulnerable moments of her life." But no one knows who Grace is. She might not like certain responses to her account (I presume), but she's more or less insulated from the consequences of this article as long as her identity is hidden. Ansari was publicly targeted right after he won a high-profile award. And given the current climate, plus Ansari's reputation as a feminist, plus the show he won the award for, he's now arguably in an incredibly vulnerable position career-wise.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:24 am

Ugh. All the talk in that email about how nobody watches HLN and the network is totally failing reminds me of Trump. No bueno, es muy mal.

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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Cpt._Funkotron » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:17 am

Reading that email, the thought occured to me, is it at all possible that Katie Way IS Grace? It's a completely baseless hypothesis, other than one is a 22 year old journalist, the other an anonymous 23 year old photographer, and it seemed like she took the criticism of Grace very personally in the email.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Crimson847 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:03 am

Anything's possible, but I doubt it. It seems more likely that she just feels understandably protective of "Grace", which wouldn't surprise me a bit. After all, hearing a story like that from someone is a powerful bonding experience. Ideally a professional journalist would retain some emotional distance from their interview subjects for the sake of objectivity, but neophytes fresh out of college often haven't had the hard professional experiences that most effectively teach that skill.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Grimstone » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:08 am

cmsellers wrote:However if things happened as she described, Ansari's behavior was inexcusable. If it happened as described, it was rape. So it annoys men when I see people saying "even if things happened as she described, by her own account it just was a bad drunken hookup."


It annoys you? My younger brother was raped as a child by a neighbor of ours(who threatened to kill him and my family if he ever told anyone), a class-mate of mine was repeatedly raped by her step dad(while her mother knew about it and did nothing), I have a cousin who's probably going to be messed up in the head for the rest of his life and is in the state's custody right now because his parents were abusing him. And you're annoyed because people like me don't think asking someone more than once for sex is rape? Piss off. You know what else? Anyone who thinks woman don't have the agency to say no or leave when asked more than once to have sex(and are not being threatened or physically forced) is not a feminist.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Kate » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:25 am

It is fairly presumptuous to assume that people who are annoyed by your stance don't have any experience with violent sexual assault themselves, whether in their own lives or because someone they love has experienced it. Given the statistics, it is unfortunately safe to assume that you are not alone in this. I am sorry you have this burden to carry and that people you love were hurt.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Grimstone » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:31 am

Kate wrote:It is fairly presumptuous to assume that people who are annoyed by your stance don't have any experience with violent sexual assault themselves, whether in their own lives or because someone they love has experienced it. Given the statistics, it is unfortunately safe to assume that you are not alone in this. I am sorry you have this burden to carry and that people you love were hurt.


The point is I am aware of what rape is, and being handsy/asking more than once it is not.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Cpt._Funkotron » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:33 am

Grimstone wrote:
Kate wrote:It is fairly presumptuous to assume that people who are annoyed by your stance don't have any experience with violent sexual assault themselves, whether in their own lives or because someone they love has experienced it. Given the statistics, it is unfortunately safe to assume that you are not alone in this. I am sorry you have this burden to carry and that people you love were hurt.


The point is I am aware of what rape is, and being handsy/asking more than once it is not.


The point is well taken, but I think it could have stood to be made with a little more courtesy.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby cmsellers » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:44 am

So this was your point, then?

Grimstone wrote:And you're annoyed because people like me don't think asking someone more than once for sex is rape?

Because that's not even remotely what I claimed. What I called "rape" was the second round of oral sex, not his disregarding her boundaries on the actual sex. There is a stark difference between consent and complaisance. According to the story she complied because she was so shocked she wasn't sure what else to do. Combined with other elements of the story (namely him blocking her from leaving and the incident coming after she'd expressed discomfort and they'd put their clothes back on) I'm comfortable using "rape" to refer to actions depicted therein.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Grimstone » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:52 am

cmsellers wrote:What I called "rape" was the second round of oral sex, not his disregarding her boundaries on the actual sex. There is a stark difference between consent and complaisance. According to the story she complied because she was so shocked she wasn't sure what else to do.


“He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did."

That's not rape. Notice how he didn't threaten her or physically force her to go down on him.

Combined with other elements of the story (namely him blocking her from leaving and the incident coming after she'd expressed discomfort and they'd put their clothes back on) I'm comfortable using "rape" to refer to actions depicted therein.


Re-read the story, she says he kept following her around in his apartment not that he ever blocked the door/kept her from leaving. When she said no to sex he stopped, when she told him stop kissing/making out with her he stopped, when she wanted to leave she left without problem. Rapists don't usually stop when you ask them to stop or let you leave when you want to leave.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:21 am

I'm going to asking for civility in this thread. I understand this is a heavy topic and emotions are high, but telling people to "piss off" or getting personal is not conductive to discussion. Please keep it civil. Take a break from the thread if need be. Thank you.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby SandTea » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:46 am

Grimstone, I want you to understand that I didn't claim this was rape. Sort of like how "grace" and most others were also not saying it was rape. I did say "being an asshole" and I will stand by that claim. Just because someone calls out their asshole date doesn't mean they are detracting from any other abuses. I do not comprehend a lot of things and why people are so upset about someone saying aziz was a dick waving ass is one of them. His career will be fine. His standing as a feminist might not be.

I do think the article was... bad but because of how it was written and not because grace just spoke.
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Re: Aziz Ansari Accused of Assaulting Anonymous Admirer

Postby Grimstone » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:38 am

SandTea wrote:Grimstone, I want you to understand that I didn't claim this was rape.


Then obviously my most recent posts weren't directed at you.

I did say "being an asshole" and I will stand by that claim. Just because someone calls out their asshole date doesn't mean they are detracting from any other abuses. I do not comprehend a lot of things and why people are so upset about someone saying aziz was a dick waving ass is one of them.


I'm going to stop you right there. If the babe article simply accused Aziz of being a jerk then this thread(and most of the discussion going on about it) wouldn't exist so let's not pretend that's the case.
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