Double post so this can be broken down timely and so I don't have to wade through giant walls of text to post quotes.
On why they started to look at Russia
Q. So you had mentioned a few minutes ago that you had done some political or campaign research in the course of the 2016 presidential election and you clarified that that was work related to then Candidate and now President Trump. What can you tell us about that work? Can you just describe it first generally and then I'll ask you some follow-up.
A. It was, broadly speaking, a kind of 7holistic examination of Donald Trump's business 8 record and his associations, his bankruptcies, his suppliers, you know, offshore or third-world suppliers of products that he was selling. You know, it evolved somewhat quickly into issues of his relationships to organized crime figures but, you know, really the gamut of Donald Trump.
So anyway, we read everything we could read about Donald Trump. Those books cover his divorces, his casinos, his early years dealings with labor unions and mafia figures. I'm trying to think what else. His taxes certainly have always been a big issue. Again, it was sort of an unlimited look at his -- you know, his business and finances and that sort of thing.
Q. Okay. So with regard to that initial engagement because you had talked a bit about some of the research you had done -- I think you said it was holistic, financials, potential ties to organized crime. With regard to this initial engagement that started in October, September, can you just explain for us what your findings were.
A. I guess I'll just give you the caveat that, you know, it's a group effort. So I can tell you, you know, as the person that was, you know, running the project, you know, I had my fingers in various things, but there were also the things that I was directly focused on. In the early -- the very first weekend that I started boning up on Donald Trump, you know, I found various references to him having connections 20 to Italian organized crime and later to a Russian organized crime figure named Felix Sater, 22 S-A-T-E-R. It wasn't hard to find, it wasn't any great achievement, it was in the New York Times, but as someone who has done a lot of Russian organized crime investigations as a journalist originally that caught my attention and became something that, you know, I focused on while other people looked at other things
Q. And what, if anything, did you conclude about the connection between and in the business 2 dealings that then Candidate Trump had had with Mr. Sater?
A. Well, somewhat analogous to the Browder situation I found it notable this was something he didn't want to talk about and testified under oath he wouldn't know Felix if he ran into him in the street. That was not true. He knew him well and, in fact, continued to associate with him long after he learned of Felix's organized crime ties.
We saw indications that some of the money came from Kazakhstan, among other places, and that some of it you just couldn't account for.
On golf courses and taxes
We spent a lot of time trying to figure out whether he's really as rich as he says he is because that was the subject of a libel case that he filed against a journalist 5 named Tim O'Brien for which there was quite a lot of discovery and litigation filings detailing O'Brien's allegation that he was worth, you know, maybe a fifth to a third of what he claims and Trump's angry retort that he was worth far more than that. So we did things like we looked at the golf courses and whether they actually ever made any money and how much debt they had. We looked at the bankruptcies, how could somebody go through so many bankruptcies, you know, and still have a billion dollars in personal assets. So those are the kinds of things. We looked at a lot of things like his tax bills. Tax bills are useful because you can figure out how much money someone is making or how much they're worth or how much their properties are worth based on how much they have to pay in taxes. One of the things we found out was that, you know, when it comes to paying taxes, Donald Trump claims to not have much stuff. At least the Trump organization.
Initial ease of information and the hiring of Steele
Q. And specific to the engagement with regard to the research on Candidate Trump, why did you specifically ask Mr. Steele to do that work?
A. The way our firm runs we pursue things, you know, somewhat out of curiosity. So we didn't know -- it was opaque what Donald Trump had been doing on these business trips to Russia. We didn't know what he was doing there. So I gave Chris we gave Chris a sort of assignment that would be typical for us which was pretty open ended. We said see if you can find out what Donald Trump's been doing on these trips to Russia. Since Chris and I worked together over the years there's a lot that didn't need to be said. That would include who is he doing business with, which hotels does he like to stay at, you know, did anyone ever offer him anything, you know, the standard sort of things you would look at. I don't think I gave him any specific instructions beyond the general find out what he was up to.
The thing that people forget about what was going on in June of 2016 was that no one was really focused on sort of this question of whether Donald Trump had a relationship with the Kremlin. So, you know, when Chris started asking around in Moscow about this the information was sitting there. It wasn't a giant secret. People were talking about it freely. It was only, you know, later that it became a subject of great controversy and people clammed up, and at that time the whole issue of the hacking was also, you know, not really focused on Russia. So these things eventually converged into, you know, a major issue, but at the time it wasn't one.
They keep asking stuff about the Prevezon case for aaaageeesss
GASP!
The dossier isn't even really a dossier
A. Correct. To be totally clear, you know,
what people call the dossier is not really a
dossier. It's a collection of field memoranda, of
field interviews, a collection that accumulates
over a period of months. You know, they came in
intermittently, there was no schedule. You know,
he'd reach a point in the reporting where he had
enough to send a new memo; so he'd send one. So
you won't find any real rhythm or chronological
sort of system to the way they came in.
On Steele's reputation and how the confirmed 'sensitive information they obtained'
Q. You had indicated that when you received
it you found it unusual, it was sensitive
information. Did you take steps to verify any of
the information?
A. We assessed it for credibility, whether it
was credible. The question of the credibility of
the information is obviously a big question here,
can this be believed. There's other secondary
questions that would follow on from that, can it
somehow be used, does it have any use and that sort
of thing, but the threshold question is is it
credible information.
You know, there were two background factors
to that. One was who is it coming from. It's
coming from Chris Steele who's a guy that I've
worked with for, you know, about eight or nine
years and Chris, as I say, has a Sterling
reputation as a person who doesn't exaggerate,
doesn't make things up, doesn't sell baloney. In
my business, I mean, there are a lot of people who
make stuff up and sell baloney. So the one thing
that you get good at if you do this for a while is
finding reliable sources, finding reliable people
who have a record of giving it to you straight and
not making stuff up and not making mistakes. So
from that perspective, you know, this was alarming
because Chris is a credible person, he's well
respected in his field, and, as I say, everyone I
know who's ever dealt with him thinks he's quite
good. That would include people from the U.S.
government.
I'm just going to sum up things because holy hell there's a lot of back and forth.
Summation of pages around the 160 mark: The DNC hack happened and Steele found something that he felt the FBI needed to know about. Fusion GPS initially dragged their heels, but Steele said he knew someone to talk to. Steele's concern was whether or not there was political blackmail afoot and/or if someone had been compromised. Steele attempted to contact them in June or July, however, Fusion GPS dude Simpson was never involved in these talks.
Simpson does state in the 170s that it appeared obvious espionage had occurred.
Steele reported to Simpson he had a meeting with the FBI in September of 16, that they told Steele they believed his information to be credible as they had discovered similar reports. FBI had told Steele they had inside Trump campaign information as well.
Late 170s: Comey's reopening of Clinton's emails concerns Fusion GPS and Steele about their bipartianship and started to concern them about what was going on at the FBI. Because of this concern, Steele stopped talking to the FBI.
More questions about dinners and the prior case.
There is a LOT of back and forth about did anyone violate a business contract by going to the media, did Steele say whether or not the FBI said to talk to the media, did you guys talk about going to the media.
Levy, Simpsons attorney, stresses to the questioners that they've already told them that neither Simpson nor Steele gave the data to Buzzfeed.
Then they ask if Simpson thought that the confidentiality agreement meant they weren't supposed to talk to law enforcement. He replies that if there is a terroristic crime or mafia operation then they should report it and that it wouldn't be bound by a confidentiality agreement.
Ah the nitty gritty FINALLY. Simpson is asked if the amount of compensation to Fusion or Orbis was based on the FBI opening an investigation into Trump. He indicated no.
Talked about how they looked into Carter Page before looking into any conspiracy. Simpson said Carter Page was the typical person that Russians would try to co-opt, compromise, or manipulate.
Simpson later repeats that Huckabee Sander's insistence that Fusion GPS took money from the Russian government is very, very false. He also clarifies that they are non-partisan and not an extension of the democratic party.
Simpson states he does not feel Steele was influenced by anyone.
They ask a LOT if Simpson knows Steele's sources. He does not.
It's mentioned that after the election Fusion noted that someone had attempted to hack them.
They want to know if Fusion paid journalists? They did not.
There is so much back and forth even the court reporter interrupts with a succinct, "Guys."
Bunch of talk about a bunch of Russian dudes who were involved in Trump's Soho project.
They keep trying to push for client names and source names t/o the interview. It's painful.