Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby sunglasses » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:52 pm

One Palestinian killed, and at least 60 others were wounded in clashes with Israeli defense soldiers Friday, 12/8/17.

A 30-year-old Palestinian was killed by IDF gunfire in the Khan Younis region in Gaza, according to Palestinian health officials. The protester, Mahmoud Al-Masri, was critically hurt and later died of his wounds. 

Approximately 3,000 protesters are taking part in demonstrations around the West Bank, including in the cities of Ramallah, Hebron and Bethlehem. Protestors have thrown molotov cocktails and rocks. Security forces have responded with live fire, rubber bullets and tear gas.


Forty-six Palestinians have been wounded by rubber bullets at protests in the West Bank, the Palestinian Red Crescent report. Fourteen have reportedly been wounded by live fire. Dozens have been treated for tear-gas inhalation, the Red Crescent reports.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby tinyrick » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:09 pm

JamishT wrote:
tinyrick wrote:
aviel wrote:That sitcom scenario describes a lot of the Israeli-Arab conflict, but it's taking a lot longer than 22 minutes to wrap up in a heartwarming conclusion.


Glad you have a sense of humor about it. In all honesty, it took me about 5 minutes to decide to click on post reply.

I know the Kansas City comparison is laughably ignorant if I was being serious.


Kansas City, Kansas can go fuck itself, so maybe it's not too far off.


Took me awhile to get this joke. Just noticed your location.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Marcuse » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 pm

Now Trump's big mouth is getting people killed. Well done USA, you managed to go almost a year before people started to die. Regardless of the right or wrong of the decision itself, doing unilaterally like this was bound to do nothing but start riots, stoke Islamist grievances against Israel (which recently at least Saudi seem to have been trying to thaw), and invite international condemnation. Unless Trump really pulls out some fucking awesome deal-making ability and solves the Middle East peace process, he's got to account for why he did this now and in this way and why he chose to act in a way that'd get people killed when there was no particular reason to at this point.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Cordslash » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:14 pm

What makes this entire situation even weirder is that Trump picked his son in law to be a chief negotiator in the middle east peace process.
Not the Secretary of State or seasoned diplomats. His son in law.

It's bizarre.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby sunglasses » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:30 pm

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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Aquila89 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:41 pm

Marcuse wrote:Now Trump's big mouth is getting people killed. Well done USA, you managed to go almost a year before people started to die.


Trump already authorized a raid in Yemen back in February that killed several civilians, including an 8-year-old girl who was also an American citizen.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Absentia » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:45 pm

It doesn't happen often, but I'm going to back Trump on this one. I prefer the truth over convenient fiction and the truth is that Jerusalem is the seat of the Israeli government. If somebody decides to have a fit over an acknowledgement of reality, that's on them.

Not that I think DJT gives a damn about the truth, of course, but when you're right you're right.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby aviel » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:06 am

I’m a little torn. I think the ultimate blame for violence in response to this news rests on those being violent. On the other hand, I think that a President should take into account a predictable violent reaction when saying something likely to provoke it. But back on the first hand, I don’t think the correct way to take that consideration into account is to continue to insist on something that isn’t true.

So what options remain? I’m not sure, and it’s possible there weren’t any good ones. In that case, I’m disinclined to fault previous presidents for wanting to avoid a violent reaction, and I’m also disinclined to fault the current president for saying something true.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby sunglasses » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:25 am

My issue is he claimed to do this to promote peace.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Marcuse » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:54 am

My issue with Trump is that he knew damn well, or if he didn't he should have been told, that doing this unilaterally in this way would cause violence and cause the Middle East peace process to be set back. While absolutely he shouldn't be personally responsible for the actions of other people in other countries, as a representative of the stature of US President he has a responsibility to promote peace and safety where he can. In this circumstance, nobody would have batted an eyelid if he'd kept on with the policy of previous administrations and the rest of the entire world that have an embassy in Israel and left it in Tel Aviv. Acting in the way that he has, and claiming that it would promote peace is ridiculous.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Windy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:23 am

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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby SandTea » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:40 am

...because a republican and a Democrat agreed on something?

Co-sponsored by 17 senators, including Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R) and Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D)
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:24 pm



Because the president is actually the only person in the US government, no one else matters, duh.

Fun fact, this actually is the reason. Israeli support in congress is basically bipartisan but as long as the president pretends to be neutral no one cares.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby gisambards » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:42 pm

A Combustible Lemon wrote:


Because the president is actually the only person in the US government, no one else matters, duh.

Fun fact, this actually is the reason. Israeli support in congress is basically bipartisan but as long as the president pretends to be neutral no one cares.


No, it's because Trump's actions are going to have - and in fact already have had - a significantly larger negative impact on the peace process than some pointless commemorative bill passing through Congress. The problem is absolutely not just that Trump is pro-Israel - that was actually common knowledge anyway, and half the people who've been criticising what he's done are probably pro-Israel too. Even the stupid commemoration of reunification bill claimed it wanted peace as the ultimate outcome, but Trump's actions don't seem to have had a peaceful resolution in mind, and have certainly damaged the chances of one.
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Re: Violence in Israel after Trump's Jerusalem move

Postby Marcuse » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:43 pm

Got the wrong end of the stick. Whoops.

Image

Spoiler: show


Because at a time when Trump has caused riots and worldwide condemnation with his unilateral statement that he'd move the US embassy to Jerusalem, even he stopped short of describing this as an "undivided" capital. This resolution, passed unanimously by the US Senate, states:

“Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected,”


Which while it also calls for other groups to be protected, maintains an assertion that even Donald Trump didn't have the stones to make. Avi pointed out that Israel has made several offers to cede Arab areas of Jerusalem to a Palestinian state, so it's not even a position that Israel itself appears to hold in a practical sense. So given the context and the statement made, it's a development in an ongoing situation which may be relevant and at the very least is something people might want to know about.
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